Islamic Feminism!

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I suppose someone has to stick their neck out even if it means a beheading.The only way to change things.

I wouldn't last long there with my smart ass mouth.

One thing I wonder,if you are a kid and you get lost from Mommy,how would you know who your mom is if they are all covered up and look the same?

Don't say that. It's 'offensive'. It's even more offensive to ask the women to smile for a photo.

Well,I was going to ask if they found mom by her smell.......

Heard this old story,"a Man went on a camel ride with his favorite wife,she fell off and accidentally exposed her privates,he was ok with this because she managed to keep her face covered".

I had a bad taste joke to go along with that. I'll PM you because it might upset the delicate flowers in this thread.

There is an Islamic feminist who's very critical of the way women are treated in muslim countries. Her name is Irshad Manji. She did commentaries for a show called big ideas which films university lectures. Her comments were very intelligent and insightful. I've never read any of her books though. Here's a wiki link about her.
Irshad

Indeed. I don't agree with everything she says, but she is someone I hold in fairly high regard. Another prominent Muslim reformist I hold in high regard would be Tarek Fatah - he wrote a book disagreeing with the anti-Semitism in Islam, and is a staunch critic of Islamic fundamentalism. He is a social democrat (for his sins), but his political views are more in common with mine than many right-wing politicians from my own country. Raheem Kassam is another reformist who I have a lot of time for, too. He's a British right-wing contributor to The Commentator website and is very against fundamentalism and extremism within Islam.

Yeah, I don't agree with everything Irshad says either. I'll have to look up Raheem Kassam.

I live in a shitter part of Manchester, and I see niqabs about 2 or 3 times a week. It's not very common, but it's more common than it used to be,

Also, you do see it every day if you live in Oldham or Rochdale, but I have bigger fish to fry that what people are wearing.

Last edited by puddingmouse on 23 Jan 2013, 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I'll also add that I see many more Muslim women in completely Western (but not revealing) clothes, mainly because I work with so many.

yeah, same as what i see. i see it on a regular basis (sometimes even every day), but it's not common. jeans or jumpers are common, niqabs are not.

I sometimes see Muslim women wearing long-sleeved shirts and long pants and "headgear". What's odd is that they are often wearing stretchy tops and skintight jeans (sometimes with sparkles on the arse). I feel like their clothing is more revealing than mine, because they are essentially wearing a catsuit.

That makes me think of when I saw some Mennonite women shopping for undergarments,they were picking out black,red and animal print stuff that was really racy.
The bad thing is now every time I see one of these ladies I get a really weird visual about what they are wearing under those demure clothes.

This is an interesting discussion because I've had the opportunity insider knowledge of Jewish tradition, even though I am not. Specifically Orthodox Jewish women, and we are talking about those who are complicit and agree with it, rather then those that are not.

It surprised me a bit. Having research the differences with women in Islam, it would hard for me to say the Islamic traditions are the more problematic. I think there are some issues, but to my surprise it was the Jewish traditions that were the most intrusive, most invasive, and controlling, and it is explicitly institutionalized.

I mean confession was always controversial even among some Catholics, but what is expected of married Jewish Women or indeed, married Jewish couples is fairly extreme IMO.

It is kind of the opposite of Islam in a way. Islam take the idea of family purity an make it a personal responsibility, where as in Judaism has to be officiated by Rabbis. There are so many rules even the initiated are confused by it.

If anything Islam would specifically forbid or at least some of the disclosures that are require in Judaism, especially with other men. It is extreme in the opposite way. Neither are healthy.

So therefore it is would hypocritical to say one is worse just because of appearance. It isn't appearance. Some were comfortable with it, some weren't. If they are happy to do it who am I to criticize, so long as the don't force others to.

There is often talk of the veil and coercion. That does happen but the is not the whole story. There are are some women who specifically choose to wear the veil, as hard as the is to understand. In the face of the it is not really that extreme given all the strange things the people wear.

You could say that it cause psychological problems, and it is oppressive, but it could actually do the opposite in some cases, such as give them confidence, reduce the social pressure. After all we are neuro-diverse, so who is to say?

Don't get me wrong I don't think these religions are good moral guide, but the point is everyone has some cognitive dissonance., and these types of belief are part of the human mindset to a lesser or greater extent (like it or not).

It is not that there aren't women issues, it is jut beyond just an article of clothing.

Its more cultural based on area Muslim women come from and currently live, mostly.
Liverpool had an Muslim community since 1887 made up on many backgrounds, mostly of Yemeni and Somali origin.
I live close to the main mosque (its close to a synagogue!), I see all kinds of dress. Also most Somalian women don't wear nigab; a lot of them wear guntiino, dirac, shash, and garbasaar.

The last time I seen a woman wear nigab was months ago, it was rememorable as she was at a bus stop standing next to bloke in Hasidic dress. Oh also theres a Muslim woman I know who happens to be a Zen monk, I seen her once in Buddhist robes.

Possibly but on the other hand it is just animal print, and it is private.

Of all the religious nutjobs, the Amish and Mennonite, are some of the least nutty.

Also they are not anti technology as such, they just have to agree that it is necessarily, they don't want a source of jealousy.

^^^^Mennonites use modern technology,but if you have a car it can't be red or a flashy color.
They have a great bakery and sandwich shop in a near town,great food at a great price.
I did get admonished by an elder,he said I should be in church,I was of the spirit but not the body.He was a sweet old guy so I wasn't offended,he was trying to be fatherly.
you can always tell an Amish farm in Mo,it will be immaculate and even if the weather is freezing there are lines of clothes hanging out..People hire them to build barns,they do a great job and they are fast and honest.