Poll: 2/3 of American voters would defy gun laws

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Guns are selling as fast as they can be stocked, especially "dangerous assault weapons" , magazines for them, and ammo.
I saw a guy grab up 2 cases (2000 rounds) of 5.56mm (what AR-15's shoot) last week without even looking at the price.
And you are right, they are buying them to KEEP.

Mosin Nagants have always been a hot item.
30-06 ballistics in a plain com-block rifle at a price anyone can afford.
Most shops that carry them buy them by the crate.

All of which serves to reinforce my view that what's called for is not a change of legal status, but a change of culture.

If the advocates of new legislation were to spend their time, money and effort on influencing public perception, and to maintain a sustained campaign to capture the hearts and minds of Americans, they would do far more to stem the epidemic of firearms violence than any legislation.

That's not to say that legislation is useless--it is an important tool in government's arsenal for protecting the public peace. But it is not a panacea that will cure the illness currently infecting the United States.

If only those old soviet leaders knew they are arming American citizens for very low prices

Words lose their meaning so quickly. I understood assault rifle to mean a selective-fire rifle; if it has no full-auto fire it is not really an assault rifle. But a couple of days ago there was some hysterical woman on tv referring to AR15s as "assault weapons of mass destruction".

I just want to say thank you to some of the users on here. There is a light at the end of the tunnel, and let's keep digging towards it.

What on earth makes you think that the advocates of this new legislation aren't BEHIND the epidemic of firearms violence? They're taking money from the drug trade that profits from gang violence.

It's as if you don't understand why someone in a position of power would want his own citizens made completely helpless.

What specifically are you referring to when you say "culture"?


The reason people are stocking up with guns and ammo right now isn't for fear of active shooters but out of mistrust of our government.
And there is no "epidemic of firearms violence" here. I live here and I don't find myself particularly in fear of it beyond exercising general caution.


"Illness infecting the United States", eh?

Yeah, it kinda goes against the grain of communism to have the peasants armed.


Yes, an assault rifle is selective fire. An AR-15 is a semi-auto only rifle so the term doesnt apply.
The antis throw it up there anyways because it sounds skeery and might get them some points with the clueless.
Yeppers, calling an AR-15 a weapon of mass destruction is hysterical. That should be given as an example of hysteria in every dictionary.

Just for the record, no one has suggested a single law that would take guns away from people. The laws that have been discussed will make it harder to buy some types of guns, in the future.

I have guns. No one is trying to take them away. If you believe that people are coming to take your guns you are either ignorant about what the policies actually are, OR you are a paranoid delusional person in which case you should not have access to guns.

I am sane, trained and safe. I have nothing to worry about from the government, but I am pretty worried about all the nut jobs who think they have the right to overthrow the government that I elected.

I feel like that last post might imply that I support the current batch of suggested gun laws. I do not. I agree that an assault weapons ban will do nothing to combat gun violence, but I am really tired of how the NRA and company are lying about what the administration is actually doing.

I would not ban AR-15s or high capacity clips. My solution and my philosophy are guns are simple.

When you take possession of a firearm, you are taking on a great responsibility to all the people around you. Every gun is deadly (and guns most definitely kill people), and so you need to:

1) Know exactly how to use it and be able to prove that you are a great shot.
2) Know where it is at all times
3) Properly care for and clean it to avoid accidents
4) Keep it secured where only you, or others you designate to use it have access to it.
5) Keep it registered, so at any time we know exactly where each legal gun is.
6) Follow all rules regarding responsible, lawful and careful carrying.

Violating any of these rules should result in a permanent loss of gun rights. If people want, there could be a warning, or even a 3 strikes thing.

But the most important law should be this: Any bullet fired from your gun, BY ANYONE, is treated as if you fired it intentionally. If someone kills someone with your gun, you committed first degree murder. In many states that will result in your execution.

to borrow from kipling, "east is east, west is west, and never the twain shall meet." gun lovers and gun haters will never agree on anything other than the fact that they will never agree on anything. all this pissing contest is accomplishing is a great waste of time.

Haha, yes they have.

Don't start your posts out with a lie.

most states require gun safety training to own a gun.massachusetts requires almost everything on your list to get an FID card(firearms indentification)vermpnt requires gun safety training to buy a hand gun and all states require a hunter safety coarse to get a hunting license

Not “taking” as in nationwide door to door because that’s logistically impossible. What they could possibly do, though, is ban certain types (make transfer or even possession illegal) and that would have a very nasty impact over time.
Just waiting for the law to swoop down, for whatever reason, and find my illegal AR-15 or AK or have someone blackmail me over it is no way to go through life.


You mean suppression of tyranny like we're supposed to do?


Could it be that we’re un-trusting of a government that with one hand wants to curtail or gun rights but with the other hand illegally smuggles guns across the Mexican border?

,
BS: Does a lug wrench loosen lug nuts? No, the user uses the lug wrench as a tool to loosen the lug nuts.
How does a rifle do anything?


Great shot by who’s standards? Very very few people are great shots and neither am I. I’ve sent lots and lots of rounds down range including NRA and CMP sanctioned service rifle matches and I’m nowhere near being a great shot. Some swear they are a great shot until they get to the firing line where the wheat gets separated from the chaff. Seen it time and time again.

It’s twelve o’clock. Do you know where your AR-15 is?

Really grasping at straws now, eh?

No, I think I’ll leave it leaning against my garage door with the flood lights pointed at it all night.

No, because registration leads to confiscation. Just ask and Australian. And who is “we”?

The NRA that you hate so much has done more to promote safe and responsible handing than anyone else. As an NRA certified Range Safety Officer I know a little about this.


So you want to revoke someone’s gun owning rights because they are not an expert rifleman or didn’t get quite all of the fouling out of the gas tube or bolt carrier of their AR?

Oh here we go. The Grand Finale!

So if someone steals (that’s a crime, btw) my AR out of my locked car or locked house and shoots someone (a felony in itself, btw) with it I go to death row? But if someone stole my car and ran someone else over it would be the thief’s fault, I bet….

This is the news and current events forum so I’m being more civil than I would in PPR. I cut about 1/3 of the original draft out.

Last edited by Raptor on 28 Jan 2013, 11:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

"MadMonkey"]

So you want to revoke someone’s gun owning rights because they are not an expert rifleman or didn’t get quite all of the fouling out of the gas tube or bolt carrier of their AR?



i meant to address this in my post but raptor reminded me.
there is no real link between cleaning or lack there of and accidents.you would have to fire more rounds then i even know to cake the barrel and chamber so much powder,copper and lead that chamber pressures cause the gun to explode.it would be more likely to send chamber presures to high from actualy using to much cleaning chemicals or to much gun oil in the barrell
a gun would loose significantly noticable accuracy from excess fouling long before fouling could build up so much that it would send chamber presures so high that the gun could explode.

i dont see a need for the goverment to inspect the cleanlyness of everyones guns

Our Illness. American Culture.

Tyranny had been the Government Standard for thousands of years.

In a world first, we replaced it with Liberty.

We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, and endowed by their creator with inalienable rights to Life, Liberty, and the Persuit of Happiness.

Each generation must water the Tree of Liberty, with the blood of tyrants and patriots.

Tyrants forbid speaking freely, publishing without permission, to assemble any group, and the ownership of arms.

Our charter made these the foundation of a new system of self rule.

They stand together as a group, as we do with arms to defend them.

Our Charter was strongly taken from the few that viewed self rule above all.

The Articles of the Brotherhood of the Coast, also called pirates, serving no flag but their own, Free Men and armed with the best weapons they could get, did have to make agreements that all would abide by.

They appointed a Captain to lead them, and could appoint another at any time.

These were the same on land, where men gathered on groups with arms, were subject to being hung by the Crown, and were only going to agree to what free armed men would agree to.

This is the Standard of the Constitution, Government is what the Free Citizens gathered with Arms say it is, and they have the right to replace it at any time. The Consent of the Governed.

Beyond that, the Church will have nothing to say about the Government.

No King, Noble, or Ruling Class will exist. All Offices will be appointed by the people for limited duration, and subject to recall.

This was agreed to and ratified by the armed citizens.

The Constitution does not mention guns. it mentions the right of the people to keep and bear arms. An ancestor of mine owned a small ship for trade, which had several cannon in the stern, chasing him a much larger ship could be sunk. Arms, the most powerful of the time, were a personal right.

So you may gather, speak, publish, and all points of view are welcome. We will defend your right to do so. The other side is, you must accept those rights for others, and never question their rights as enshrined in the Constitution. We will hear you out, your views are valued, but in the end we must be of one mind, so all must agree to abide by the view of the majority.

Minority rights are also in the Constitution.

Fair warning, calls for making the Pope King of America, or disarming the population for transport to the docks of England to be hung, are not going to be popular. Objecting to The Constitution, is mentioned in the Constitution, the only Crime, Treason, punishable by Death.

Welcome! Join us or die.

here is so much I want to reply to, but I don't know if I'll have time. This thread has been busier than I expected!