Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

If the universe were to collapse, would time go backwards?

Page 2 of 2 [ 29 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Previous topic | Next topic

naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 71
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,189
Location: temperate zone

08 Feb 2013, 8:01 am

Dragoness wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Its already happening!

The universe passed its prime a couple billion years ago.

As we speak it is- at this very moment -collapsing!

Has been for a couple billion of its 13 billion years.

Because its collapsing time is -at this moment- running backwards.

But since time is running backward- we are also running backwards- so our perception of time is backward. So we precieve time as running forward.

So- to us- time APPEARS to be running forward.
But its running backward.

Beings in the forward outward expanding phase of the universe have a forward perception of time running forward- so they correctly percieve that time is running forward- when it is in running forward.

But beings in the contracting phase have the illusion that time is running forward when it is really running backward they perceive the backward progress of time in a backward way- so to them- its time runnng forward.

So beings who live in the universe- can never tell whether they are coming or going. Because it looks the same either way! It always appears that we are expanding regardless of which phase your in.

Or, thats my theory.


I have two things to say.

1. Where did you hear that the universe is collapsing?

2. What do you mean by "Or thats my theory"?


Was being a bit tongue-in-cheek to make the point that "how do we know that this (what we are living in now) isnt 'backward'?"

Maybe golf balls are supposed to pop out of the hole and roll across the green to the golfer's club. And maybe causes are supposed to come after effects. And maybe we are supposed to have decreasing entropy- ever increasing order in nature.



vermontsavant
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,110
Location: Left WP forever

08 Feb 2013, 8:43 am

time can stop and scientists had done it in controled laboritories but time cant ever go backwards.

if the universe collapsed all that energy and matter would have to go somewhere and a new universe would start and the affects of the old universe would still have some influence on the new one because the new universe would owe its matter and energy to the old.time could slow down and even begin to progress in a different and inconsitent manor.but time cant ever go backwards


_________________
Forever gone
Sorry I ever joined


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 71
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,189
Location: temperate zone

08 Feb 2013, 9:14 am

vermontsavant wrote:
time can stop and scientists had done it in controled laboritories but time cant ever go backwards.

if the universe collapsed all that energy and matter would have to go somewhere and a new universe would start and the affects of the old universe would still have some influence on the new one because the new universe would owe its matter and energy to the old.time could slow down and even begin to progress in a different and inconsitent manor.but time cant ever go backwards


Theoretically you could go backward in time- but you would have to go faster than the speed of light to do that- which is ofcourse- impossible.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

08 Feb 2013, 10:12 am

naturalplastic wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
time can stop and scientists had done it in controled laboritories but time cant ever go backwards.

if the universe collapsed all that energy and matter would have to go somewhere and a new universe would start and the affects of the old universe would still have some influence on the new one because the new universe would owe its matter and energy to the old.time could slow down and even begin to progress in a different and inconsitent manor.but time cant ever go backwards


Theoretically you could go backward in time- but you would have to go faster than the speed of light to do that- which is ofcourse- impossible.


Impossible? No one has ever seen energy or information transmitted FTL but impossible is a stronger claim. If one could construct a mathematical model of world in which FTL is possible and the model is mathematically consistent (even if not empirically true) then FTL is at least logically possible.

ruveyn



ModusPonens
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jan 2013
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 715

08 Feb 2013, 10:30 am

I think naturalplastic gave the correct answer. Entropy is the key here. Entropy defines the direction of perceived time. And acording to what we know, entropy will always increase.



vermontsavant
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,110
Location: Left WP forever

08 Feb 2013, 11:49 am

naturalplastic wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
time can stop and scientists had done it in controled laboritories but time cant ever go backwards.

if the universe collapsed all that energy and matter would have to go somewhere and a new universe would start and the affects of the old universe would still have some influence on the new one because the new universe would owe its matter and energy to the old.time could slow down and even begin to progress in a different and inconsitent manor.but time cant ever go backwards


Theoretically you could go backward in time- but you would have to go faster than the speed of light to do that- which is ofcourse- impossible.
the affects of time can not be reversed.if the speed of light caused the affects of time to reverse themslves time would not be going backwards because a force would be acting upon it.the force acting on time would be a new affect of time.

example bulbs you plant in the ground could reverse the planting by a force likely the planter digging them up and putting them back in the bag they came from,going back to the home and garden store,getting your money back with receipt.

you have not reversed time at all,"IN TIME"a force reversed some of the affects of time.


_________________
Forever gone
Sorry I ever joined


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 71
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,189
Location: temperate zone

08 Feb 2013, 12:38 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
time can stop and scientists had done it in controled laboritories but time cant ever go backwards.

if the universe collapsed all that energy and matter would have to go somewhere and a new universe would start and the affects of the old universe would still have some influence on the new one because the new universe would owe its matter and energy to the old.time could slow down and even begin to progress in a different and inconsitent manor.but time cant ever go backwards


Theoretically you could go backward in time- but you would have to go faster than the speed of light to do that- which is ofcourse- impossible.
the affects of time can not be reversed.if the speed of light caused the affects of time to reverse themslves time would not be going backwards because a force would be acting upon it.the force acting on time would be a new affect of time.

example bulbs you plant in the ground could reverse the planting by a force likely the planter digging them up and putting them back in the bag they came from,going back to the home and garden store,getting your money back with receipt.

you have not reversed time at all,"IN TIME"a force reversed some of the affects of time.


Not sure of your point.

According to Einstein time is relative. And it slows down for you when you move faster. And it has been proven expiramentally that atomic clocks move slower when they are put into space orbit ( ie move at the 170000 mph orbital speed) than they do sitting on earth.

So when you hit the speed of light-time stops altogether.

So- IN THEORY- if you go farther- and excede the speed of light-then for you time would go backward.

If the universe collapses into a big crunch then that would be the equivalent of being in a black hole-which is the equivalent of moving at the speed of light (in theory), so time in the universe would stand still.

So if it were an EXTRA BLACK black hole -or something-then maybe time would move backward!



visagrunt
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,118
Location: Vancouver, BC

08 Feb 2013, 2:45 pm

I suggest that it is not "time" that runs backwards, provided that we understand time to be one of the measurements that separates cause and effect.

What will start to run backwards, however, are those causes and effects--because a collapsing universe is going from a less ordered state into a more ordered state.


_________________
--James


techstepgenr8tion
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,723
Location: 28th Path of Tzaddi

08 Feb 2013, 3:20 pm

Its not impossible but there's nothing in my intuition which would suggest that all actions would run backward, ie. there's no guarantee that things would refold the way they unfolded.

In that sense I really think that, were the universe to stop expanding and start retracting we'd just see blue-shift instead of red-shift, and that's about the only difference we'd notice for a very long time.



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,286
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

08 Feb 2013, 3:33 pm

I don't think it can collapse, but the question is if it did would we even be aware of it? Also though I think time goes in a cycle not nessisarily forward or backwards but that's a weird concept according to some people.


_________________
Tis the time to melt the Ice.


vermontsavant
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,110
Location: Left WP forever

08 Feb 2013, 4:24 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
time can stop and scientists had done it in controled laboritories but time cant ever go backwards.

if the universe collapsed all that energy and matter would have to go somewhere and a new universe would start and the affects of the old universe would still have some influence on the new one because the new universe would owe its matter and energy to the old.time could slow down and even begin to progress in a different and inconsitent manor.but time cant ever go backwards


Theoretically you could go backward in time- but you would have to go faster than the speed of light to do that- which is ofcourse- impossible.
the affects of time can not be reversed.if the speed of light caused the affects of time to reverse themslves time would not be going backwards because a force would be acting upon it.the force acting on time would be a new affect of time.

example bulbs you plant in the ground could reverse the planting by a force likely the planter digging them up and putting them back in the bag they came from,going back to the home and garden store,getting your money back with receipt.

you have not reversed time at all,"IN TIME"a force reversed some of the affects of time.


Not sure of your point.

According to Einstein time is relative. And it slows down for you when you move faster. And it has been proven expiramentally that atomic clocks move slower when they are put into space orbit ( ie move at the 170000 mph orbital speed) than they do sitting on earth.

So when you hit the speed of light-time stops altogether.

So- IN THEORY- if you go farther- and excede the speed of light-then for you time would go backward.

If the universe collapses into a big crunch then that would be the equivalent of being in a black hole-which is the equivalent of moving at the speed of light (in theory), so time in the universe would stand still.

So if it were an EXTRA BLACK black hole -or something-then maybe time would move backward!
i said earlier that time can be stoped and it has been stoped in controlled laboratories.
but it cant be reversed unless a force acts upon it and if a force acts upon it then that force has re started time then.so if the universe colapsed and went into chaos matter and energy would still interact with each other and that is what time is.i dont know very much about black holes or astronomy or the universe in general physics terms.

i still cant believe physical events can unfold in reverse chronological order without a force acting upon them.that force itself would re ignite time again.like i said before you can be the force that takes bulbs out of the soil and takes them back to the home and garden store,but on your way back to the home and garden store you may:burn gas,smoke a cigarette,smoke a joint,create sound waves by listening to the radio,hence time continues


_________________
Forever gone
Sorry I ever joined


ripped
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Jan 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 651

08 Feb 2013, 5:57 pm

ruveyn wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Theoretically you could go backward in time- but you would have to go faster than the speed of light to do that- which is ofcourse- impossible.


Impossible? No one has ever seen energy or information transmitted FTL but impossible is a stronger claim. If one could construct a mathematical model of world in which FTL is possible and the model is mathematically consistent (even if not empirically true) then FTL is at least logically possible.

ruveyn

"In Quantum entanglement, part of the transfer happens instantaneously. Repeated experiments have verified that this works even when the measurements are performed more quickly than light could travel between the sites of measurement: there's no slower-than-light influence that can pass between the entangled particles." - Wikipedia



Chevand
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 580
Location: Vancouver, BC

08 Feb 2013, 10:31 pm

JNathanK wrote:
How would we know whether its going backwards or not?


For one thing, Memento would suddenly be a lot less interesting.

In all seriousness, though, I don't think there's enough evidence to make the assertion that a shrinking Universe would necessarily invert the Second Law of Thermodynamics.


_________________
Mediocrity is a petty vice; aspiring to it is a grievous sin.