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Woman burned alive by mob for 'sorcery' in Papua New Guinea

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Dragoness
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09 Feb 2013, 2:50 pm

Fnord wrote:
Why anyone would defend a religion that is based on torture, death, slavery and misogyny is beyond my understanding. Is it the will of the Christian god that such atrocities should occur? "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" seems to be a damning indictment of the entire belief system.


If it is the will of the Christian god that such atrocities should occur, then I don't understand the Christian god. And "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" certainly is a "damning indictment" as you put it. But the burning of witches is not supported by a good portion of the Christian community worldwide - it is often ignored, as far as it was concerned. And, as far as I was concerned, Christianity was not originally based on torture, death, and slavery, and is not currently supporting such immoral things in general. Yes, it did support those things once. Yes, Kepari was cruelly murdered by Christians. That does not mean Christianity is entirely evil.



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09 Feb 2013, 2:52 pm

Fnord wrote:
Dragoness wrote:
Tequila wrote:
This, this and this. Oh, and this again.
And, as far as I was concerned, the people of Papua New Guinea ... They're still living as hunter-gatherers...

Wake up and join the real world.

Papua New Guinea is richly endowed with natural resources, including mineral and renewable resources, such as forests, marine (including a large portion of the world's major remaining tuna stocks), and in some parts for agriculture. Agriculture, both for subsistence and cash crops provides a livelihood for 85% of the population and continues to provide some 30% of their gross domestic product (GDP). Mineral deposits, including gold, oil, and copper, account for 72% of export earnings. oil palm production has grown steadily over recent years, with palm oil now the main agricultural export, but in terms of households participating coffee remains the major export crop, followed by cocoa and coconut oil/copra from the coastal areas, each largely produced by smallholders and tea, produced on estates and rubber.

Thus, 85% of Papua New Guinea's population is involved in farming, while the remaining 15% are involved in mining and governmental functions.

If there are any "hunter-gatherers" in Papua New Guinea, they are not in the majority ... Christians are, however ...


First of all, thank you for correcting me on that. Second of all, name one major, well known city in Papua New Guinea that has a population in the millions.



Fnord
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09 Feb 2013, 2:59 pm

Dragoness wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Dragoness wrote:
Tequila wrote:
This, this and this. Oh, and this again.
And, as far as I was concerned, the people of Papua New Guinea ... They're still living as hunter-gatherers...

Wake up and join the real world.

Papua New Guinea is richly endowed with natural resources, including mineral and renewable resources, such as forests, marine (including a large portion of the world's major remaining tuna stocks), and in some parts for agriculture. Agriculture, both for subsistence and cash crops provides a livelihood for 85% of the population and continues to provide some 30% of their gross domestic product (GDP). Mineral deposits, including gold, oil, and copper, account for 72% of export earnings. oil palm production has grown steadily over recent years, with palm oil now the main agricultural export, but in terms of households participating coffee remains the major export crop, followed by cocoa and coconut oil/copra from the coastal areas, each largely produced by smallholders and tea, produced on estates and rubber.

Thus, 85% of Papua New Guinea's population is involved in farming, while the remaining 15% are involved in mining and governmental functions.

If there are any "hunter-gatherers" in Papua New Guinea, they are not in the majority ... Christians are, however ...
First of all, thank you for correcting me on that. Second of all, name one major, well known city in Papua New Guinea that has a population in the millions.

Irrelevant, as the entire population is only 7,013,829 as of 2011 census, which is less than the entire population of New York City (8,244,910 as of 2011 census).

It seems to me that accusing people of being primitive hunter-gatherers just because there aren't as many of them as there are in a larger area of the United States smacks of racism.

I suggest that you either visit the country and find out first-hand how things really are, or go to school and get an education on the subject.


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09 Feb 2013, 3:37 pm

Dragoness wrote:

First of all, thank you for correcting me on that. Second of all, name one major, well known city in Papua New Guinea that has a population in the millions.


Um, what? How does this have anything whatsoever to do with whether or not they're hunter-gatherers?


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09 Feb 2013, 4:26 pm

Fnord wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
I'm not an apologist for Christianity - but I dont see how this incident can be blamed on Christianity.


"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." - Exodus 22:18, from the Christian Bible.

The more you know, the more you grow.


That's from the Torah, for crying out loud. Christians aren't supposed to follow that. Do you think Christians have to make burnt offerings to Yahweh too?

Aren't you an elder of a Presbyterian church? One would think you'd know some basic facts about your own religion.



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09 Feb 2013, 5:09 pm

Fnord wrote:
Dragoness wrote:
Tequila wrote:
This, this and this. Oh, and this again.
And, as far as I was concerned, the people of Papua New Guinea ... They're still living as hunter-gatherers...

Wake up and join the real world.

Papua New Guinea is richly endowed with natural resources, including mineral and renewable resources, such as forests, marine (including a large portion of the world's major remaining tuna stocks), and in some parts for agriculture. Agriculture, both for subsistence and cash crops provides a livelihood for 85% of the population and continues to provide some 30% of their gross domestic product (GDP). Mineral deposits, including gold, oil, and copper, account for 72% of export earnings. oil palm production has grown steadily over recent years, with palm oil now the main agricultural export, but in terms of households participating coffee remains the major export crop, followed by cocoa and coconut oil/copra from the coastal areas, each largely produced by smallholders and tea, produced on estates and rubber.

Thus, 85% of Papua New Guinea's population is involved in farming, while the remaining 15% are involved in mining and governmental functions.

If there are any "hunter-gatherers" in Papua New Guinea, they are not in the majority ... Christians are, however ...


They are not hunter gatherers, but some are still savages.

ruveyn



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09 Feb 2013, 5:11 pm

ruveyn wrote:
but some are still savages.


Don't call them savages! That's racist and bigoted and xenophobic and hateful and blah blah blabity blah...



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09 Feb 2013, 5:14 pm

Tequila wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
but some are still savages.


Don't call them savages! That's racist and bigoted and xenophobic and hateful and blah blah blabity blah...


Ahhh! gorn ye now!

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09 Feb 2013, 6:03 pm

Fnord wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Where does the article say that "christians are responsible for this"?

According to available metadata (the source of which I've cited above), there is a 91.5% chance that each person involved in the murder was a Christian.

naturalplastic wrote:
And how can a pagan nonchristian culture be a "christian hell hole"?

91.5% of the people of Papua New Guinea are Christian, so it is not a pagan culture. what makes it a "Hell Hole" is the ignorance, fear, and hatred exhibited by the Christians of Papua New Guinea in their treatment of a woman who was accused of being a witch.

naturalplastic wrote:
I'm not an apologist for Christianity - but I dont see how this incident can be blamed on Christianity.


"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." - Exodus 22:18, from the Christian Bible.

The more you know, the more you grow.


Thanks for the irrelevent nonsequitars.
But do you have actual answers to my questions.

Ill make it easy for you- did western missionaries tell these people to burn witches?
Yes or no?



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09 Feb 2013, 7:02 pm

abacacus wrote:
Dragoness wrote:

First of all, thank you for correcting me on that. Second of all, name one major, well known city in Papua New Guinea that has a population in the millions.


Um, what? How does this have anything whatsoever to do with whether or not they're hunter-gatherers?


I had already been corrected on the fact that they weren't hunter-gatherers. My point was that Papua New Guinea hasn't completely caught up to modern times and modern ideas. They haven't completely moved out of their old culture.



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09 Feb 2013, 7:03 pm

Papuans had advanced beyond the Paleolithic (hunting gathering) to the mesolithic (gardening- but not true farming), but were still well into the stone age. They had pigs and crops.

For that reason anthropologist love the place as a lab to study our own ancestors.

Whats interesting (since we are on the topic of religion) are the micronesian 'cargo cults' to the north of Papua- with messiahs like "John Frum".
Its as if we can see the formation of christianity in real time (see that David attenboro video someone posted a few months ago).



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09 Feb 2013, 7:07 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Ill make it easy for you- did western missionaries tell these people to burn witches?
Yes or no?


I think that this here, is the important question. If the Christian missionaries told these people to burn the "witch", then Christianity is to blame. If not, then Christianity is not to blame, the old, superstitious prejudices are.



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09 Feb 2013, 7:35 pm

Read the New Testament from Matthew to Revelations and let me know where you find 'burn witches'.

As for these Papua New Guinea 'judges' they might want to do the same, and take special note where Christ stated that the Lord will judge them proportionately to how they judge others. Don't think they'll like the ramifications much.



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09 Feb 2013, 7:44 pm

My pastor had been a missionary in Nigeria years ago, and he told me how people in the rural areas, where he resided, strongly believed in witchcraft and witches, whether they were Christians, Muslims, or followers of the traditional pagan religion. Violence and murder against anyone accused of witchcraft was common place. And the missionaries weren't immune from danger, either. My pastor recounted how another Lutheran minister he knew had been accused of witchcraft - though he seems to have gotten off easy, as he was only harassed with name calling, and having rotting animal carcasses dumped outside his home.

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09 Feb 2013, 7:45 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
My pastor had been a missionary in Nigeria years ago, and he told me how people in the rural areas, where he resided, strongly believed in witchcraft and witches, whether they were Christians, Muslims, or followers of the traditional pagan religion. Violence and murder against anyone accused of witchcraft was common place. And the missionaries weren't immune from danger, either. My pastor recounted how another Lutheran minister he knew had been accused of witchcraft - though he seems to have gotten off easy, as he was only harassed with name calling, and having rotting animal carcasses dumped outside his home.


The best thing to come out of Nigeria is the local version of Guinness. They can keep everything else.



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09 Feb 2013, 7:47 pm

article wrote:
In other sorcery-related killings, police arrested 29 people in July last year accused of being part of a cannibal cult in Papua New Guinea's jungle interior.

They were charged with the murders of seven suspected witch doctors.

Police alleged they ate their victims' brains raw and made soup from their penises.

By eating witch doctors' organs the cult members believed they would attain supernatural powers.


This raises a question I didn't even think to ask: were they basting her with some kind of barbecue sauce? Was the stake they burned her at any sort of mesquite, hickory, or cedar? Was it sort of slowly rotating over the fire? If they field-dressed her before burning her at the stake all bets are off.