Income Inequality in America

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Kraichgauer
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11 Mar 2013, 6:35 pm

Fnord wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

Fnord wrote:

There is inequality in ability and willingness to work; notice it?

there is a deficit in available jobs and people looking for jobs, notice it?

There is an abundance of jobs, and an abundance of people who do not qualify for those jobs. I have noticed this especially when those jobs requiring applied science or engineering degrees go unfilled for months until someone from outside America applies on a worker's visa.

It's a sad state of affairs when a company has to seek qualified engineers from outside the country simply because there aren't enough qualified engineers within the country to fill the jobs.

There are American companies - not many, mind you, but some - who invest in training employees to handle more high tech jobs. I think that's a worthwhile investment every other company could make.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Fnord
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11 Mar 2013, 7:20 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Fnord wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

Fnord wrote:

There is inequality in ability and willingness to work; notice it?

there is a deficit in available jobs and people looking for jobs, notice it?

There is an abundance of jobs, and an abundance of people who do not qualify for those jobs. I have noticed this especially when those jobs requiring applied science or engineering degrees go unfilled for months until someone from outside America applies on a worker's visa. It's a sad state of affairs when a company has to seek qualified engineers from outside the country simply because there aren't enough qualified engineers within the country to fill the jobs.

There are American companies - not many, mind you, but some - who invest in training employees to handle more high tech jobs. I think that's a worthwhile investment every other company could make.

Those programs are usually focused on people still in high school, and only those who earn good grades. Some offer internships to college students; but again, good grades are essential. Some also offer "Rehabilitative" employment to veterans, but an Honorable or Medical discharge is required. Some (a few) even offer some forms of O.J.T. to former gang members and people who've served time, but those who were convicted of violent and/or sexual crimes may as well forget about it.

Unfortunately, when employers need an engineer, programmer, draftsperson, or technician right now, waiting six months to a year for their paperwork to clear is tough enough without having to remediate their job skills (not to mention their language and maths skills, as well).

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Kraichgauer
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11 Mar 2013, 7:28 pm

Fnord wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Fnord wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

Fnord wrote:

There is inequality in ability and willingness to work; notice it?

there is a deficit in available jobs and people looking for jobs, notice it?

There is an abundance of jobs, and an abundance of people who do not qualify for those jobs. I have noticed this especially when those jobs requiring applied science or engineering degrees go unfilled for months until someone from outside America applies on a worker's visa. It's a sad state of affairs when a company has to seek qualified engineers from outside the country simply because there aren't enough qualified engineers within the country to fill the jobs.

There are American companies - not many, mind you, but some - who invest in training employees to handle more high tech jobs. I think that's a worthwhile investment every other company could make.

I recall programs for adults past high school age, and not having been veterans. Such an investment is not only in the business' best interest, but for the health and well being of the nation, as well.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

KyleClark
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11 Mar 2013, 8:49 pm

Lets look at Denmark they have among the least amount of government restrictions on business in Europe yet they are number 1# income equality. I believe taxes dis-proportionally affects the poor, poor people have to pay into things like S.S that doesn't even keep up with inflation, so they are loosing money in the long run. When you raise taxes, business has to raise prices hurting the poor even more. I believe blaming the rich is just counterproductive to a real solution.

marshall
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11 Mar 2013, 9:44 pm

KyleClark wrote:

S.S doesn't have to be a regressive tax. It was set that way for purely political reasons, to prevent it from being seen as a form of "welfare".

The real problem is there has to be a something to prevent the tendency for the poor to get poorer and poorer while the rich get richer and richer is as natural as the law of gravity in a purely darwinistic capitalist world. Anyone who doesn't see this has never played a game of Monopoly. Even if everyone starts out with the same amount, it never stays that way for long.

In the past unions helped the middle class grow and keep pace. Now due to the advent of globalization unions have become toothless and irrelevant. In place of raising wages to keep pace with inflation, corporations have decided to let government deal with the problem of falling wages and underemployment for the lower class. Corporations get the profit, the debt gets laid on the public, and the working poor get blamed for being "entitled moochers who pay no taxes". Pretty sweet arrangement... for some.

Last edited by marshall on 12 Mar 2013, 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

marshall
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11 Mar 2013, 10:04 pm

Fnord wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Fnord wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

Fnord wrote:

There is inequality in ability and willingness to work; notice it?

there is a deficit in available jobs and people looking for jobs, notice it?

There is an abundance of jobs, and an abundance of people who do not qualify for those jobs. I have noticed this especially when those jobs requiring applied science or engineering degrees go unfilled for months until someone from outside America applies on a worker's visa. It's a sad state of affairs when a company has to seek qualified engineers from outside the country simply because there aren't enough qualified engineers within the country to fill the jobs.

There are American companies - not many, mind you, but some - who invest in training employees to handle more high tech jobs. I think that's a worthwhile investment every other company could make.

Maybe the problem comes down to genetics? From my experience working with people, 90% of the population is simply not mathematically inclined. Sure, they do fine in high school math, but it seems less than 10% who are able to pass basic college level calculus. And even fewer actually get it enough to be able to apply it except through rote memorization. I don't believe Americans are just stupid. As someone who is naturally good at math I can easily see that the vast majority of people just don't get it the way I do.

Those people who come from overseas are the cream of the crop from their respective countries. The ones who don't do as well don't get the chance to come to the US. It just isn't realistic to expect that every single person can become qualified to be an engineer. We could certainly do better with training people but this idea that education is the end-all-and-be-all to reducing poverty and inequality is frankly delusional. The problem is an economic system that is failing, not a bunch of "lazy people".

Fnord
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11 Mar 2013, 10:48 pm

As long as people are paid what their goods and services are worth, there will be inequality in pay.

"Worth" is determined by the applied principle of "Supply and Demand".

As long as the supply of unskilled laborers exceeds the demand, their wages will be low.

As long as the demand for university-educated professionals exceeds the supply, their wages will be high.

Once you consider people as commodities, it all becomes clear.

xenon13
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12 Mar 2013, 12:42 am

Fnord wrote:

There is inequality in ability and willingness to work; notice it?

Indeed, the poor work the hardest.

xenon13
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12 Mar 2013, 12:43 am

Fnord wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

Fnord wrote:

There is inequality in ability and willingness to work; notice it?

there is a deficit in available jobs and people looking for jobs, notice it?

Quite untrue. The situation is bad for American engineers.

xenon13
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12 Mar 2013, 12:44 am

Fnord wrote:

Supply and Demand; can never beat that as a moral compass!

Fnord
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12 Mar 2013, 7:53 am

xenon13 wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Supply and Demand; can never beat that as a moral compass!

Morality is a religious concept that is irrelevant when it comes to feeding your family.

marshall
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12 Mar 2013, 10:27 am

Fnord wrote:

I don't think you realize that university-educated professionals are having mighty hard time finding jobs today. I'm not talking liberal arts majors you like to lambast either. If you want to justify that supply and demand alone should determine wages and working conditions then maybe you would like to welcome sweatshops. If the poor are getting poorer and poorer I'm going to see it as a systemic problem and prefer something be done about it before we wind up looking like a banana republic.

Also, when people can't feed their family morality will become an irrelevant concept. Some people in this god forsaken nation seem to be just itching to bring on the collapse of civilization with their insane greed.

ScrewyWabbit
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12 Mar 2013, 11:58 am

Fnord wrote:

There's something wrong when we've decided that people don't deserve a decent standard of living simply because there's no demand for their labor / talents - especially when the person has worked hard to maximize their potential and their talents. If the people responsible for creating demand are not doing that job well, then those people need to be replaced, or the responsibility shifted elsewhere. And, no, I'm not talking about the government. I'm taking about the people who proclaim and appoint themselves as being the ones responsible for job creation, in the name of their own tax breaks. The tax breaks have continued for years, basically unabated. So where are the jobs they're supposed to be creating? Where? Where?

ruveyn
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12 Mar 2013, 12:38 pm

ScrewyWabbit wrote:

You want freebies to go to the needy. Now who is going to pay for the freebies?

ruveyn

androbot2084
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12 Mar 2013, 12:44 pm

Taxation is legalized theft.

ruveyn
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12 Mar 2013, 12:45 pm

androbot2084 wrote:

Taxation is legalized theft.

Unless it is an avoidable usage tax.

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