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Just THREE people want no UK rule in FI poll

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thomas81
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12 Mar 2013, 5:35 pm

Tequila wrote:

I've never, ever heard of any pro-Argentinian sentiment from the Falklands.*

OK, sorry, that's a lie - Argentina offered Argentinian citizenship to all 3,000 islanders. One Falklander took it up and moved to Argentina.


False dichotomy- how prevailant is the pro independence lobby?


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ruveyn
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12 Mar 2013, 5:36 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Tequila wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Put them on the next flight


Ethnic cleansing.

since when did falklander start being an ethnicity?
:scratch:

thomas81 wrote:

I'm sure the Falkland Islanders are thrilled with you, erm, 'concern' over the Islands' welfare.


Are you seriously saying they wouldnt be better off in the British isles?


Home is where the heart is. These people own their homesteads on the Falkland Islands. It is THEIR property. But you don't believe in property, do you?

ruveyn



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12 Mar 2013, 5:38 pm

I think Argentina might have made a strategic blunder by their initial (the London Ambassador) dismissal of the vote.

Their foreign minister (Héctor Timerman) has already stirred up hatred between the Falklanders and Argentina once by claiming that Falkland Islanders "do not exist".

With their latest response, the Argentinian policy isn't coming across as especially civilized, so far...



thomas81
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12 Mar 2013, 5:40 pm

ruveyn wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Tequila wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Put them on the next flight


Ethnic cleansing.

since when did falklander start being an ethnicity?
:scratch:

thomas81 wrote:

I'm sure the Falkland Islanders are thrilled with you, erm, 'concern' over the Islands' welfare.


Are you seriously saying they wouldnt be better off in the British isles?


Home is where the heart is. These people own their homesteads on the Falkland Islands. It is THEIR property. But you don't believe in property, do you?

ruveyn


I wish we didnt have Argentina as a source of animosity. That fact saddens me because it didnt have turn out that way, and it bothers me more than a s**thole of a rock in the South Atlantic that unfortunately got populated by the descendants of some post renaissance yahoo whose boat got washed up there several centuries ago.


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0_equals_true
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12 Mar 2013, 5:45 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Tequila wrote:

(Incidentally, word has it that they were expecting a slightly higher 'no' vote as about ten more people than came to the ballot box actually support independence for the FIs, but chose not to vote.)


In other words they were browbeaten into not turning up? One wonders how high pro British sentiment really is in Falkland society, if half the colony did'nt even vote. Maybe a significant proportion felt they would be labelled as traitors. We'll never know.

By the way, I believe there was even a pro independence movement from within Pitcairn as the colony is cultivating its own indigenous culture, including a pitcairn dialect.

Half? Your maths is not strong. The turn out was 90%, which election have you been to with a 90% turnout?

Basically you don't support this because you don't know enough about it, and you want to be consistent with your ideology.

Take that date 1830s this wasn't the earliest point we were on the island, but the point of which we have a had uninterrupted population.

Which American states were even populated by Americans in the 1830's? Are they to give all of the the south west USA back to Mexico/Spain. Is that your logic? Are they to give Louisiana back to the French?

Does the UK have a claim to France or Holland? After all it is nearer to us than the Falklands are to Argentina. What is the rule, if you have a larger land mass you have license to bully the small territories around you?

Are you tell the Puerto Rico they aren't allowed to vote of self determination either, especially if it involves the US?

Should Chile have a claim to Argentina after all it is on the same continental shelf?



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12 Mar 2013, 5:46 pm

thomas81 wrote:
False dichotomy- how prevailant is the pro independence lobby?


There isn't one to speak of. A few people on the Islands support independence, but given the constant menacing behaviour of Argentina, it has no traction there.

FI independence seems to be talked about more on the Internet than in the Falkland Islands.

Perhaps if the oil comes in, the Falkland Islanders would talk about becoming independent with a paid-for British presence remaining there, but there'd be little point in that, because the Argentinians - being imperialist bully-boys - don't recognise the indigenous islanders.

Their case is very, very weak and they come across very badly in all of this. I feel sorry for the Argentinian population, as they need their government to face up to the appalling state of their own country instead of trying to divert people's attention to this non-case.

Hopefully Kirchner will be ousted, a new government can slowly begin to repair the awful, awful mess their country is in, and the stupid sovereignty claim and be put into abeyance and Argentina can rebuild its links with the Falklanders.



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12 Mar 2013, 5:47 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
Half? Your maths is not strong. The turn out was 90%, which election have you been to with a 90% turnout?



"Some 1,517 British citizens out of a population of 2,900 cast their ballots"

I'm no Stephen Hawking but i'm fairly certain 1517 is NOT 90% of 2900.


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12 Mar 2013, 5:49 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Tequila wrote:

I've never, ever heard of any pro-Argentinian sentiment from the Falklands.*

OK, sorry, that's a lie - Argentina offered Argentinian citizenship to all 3,000 islanders. One Falklander took it up and moved to Argentina.


False dichotomy- how prevailant is the pro independence lobby?


What is wrong with a pro-independence? It is not the majority position, but by virtue of wanting independence, they also don't want to be part of Argentina. I don't know how it can be made clearer.



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12 Mar 2013, 5:50 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
Half? Your maths is not strong. The turn out was 90%, which election have you been to with a 90% turnout?[/qupte]

(massive facepalm)

I only thought the turnout was 52%. I feel very, very silly now.

0_equals_true wrote:
Basically you don't support this because you don't know enough about it, and you want to be consistent with your ideology.


Which basically entails blaming Britain for everything.

0_equals_true wrote:
Take that date 1830s this wasn't the earliest point we were on the island, but the point of which we have a had uninterrupted population.


Our claim began in that most 'glorious' of years - 1690.

0_equals_true wrote:
Which American states were even populated by Americans in the 1830's? Are they to give all of the the south west USA back to Mexico/Spain. Is that your logic? Are they to give Louisiana back to the French?


After all this time, the French would laugh at them.

0_equals_true wrote:
Does the UK have a claim to France or Holland?


Better question:

Do the Canadians have the rights to Saint Pierre and Miquelon?
Do the Brazilians have the right to French Guiana?
Do the British have the right to the Faroe Islands? (After all, it was British for about four years during the war.)
Do the Americans have the right to Cuba?

0_equals_true wrote:
What is the rule, if you have a larger land mass you have license to bully the small territories around you?


That seems to be it.

0_equals_true wrote:
Are you tell the Puerto Rico they aren't allowed to vote of self determination either, especially if it involves the US?



Last edited by Tequila on 12 Mar 2013, 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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12 Mar 2013, 5:51 pm

thomas81 wrote:
I'm no Stephen Hawking but i'm fairly certain 1517 is NOT 90% of 2900.


Electorate: 1,672.



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12 Mar 2013, 5:51 pm

thomas81 wrote:
0_equals_true wrote:
Half? Your maths is not strong. The turn out was 90%, which election have you been to with a 90% turnout?



"Some 1,517 British citizens out of a population of 2,900 cast their ballots"

I'm no Stephen Hawking but i'm fairly certain 1517 is NOT 90% of 2900.


Yes you are not. How many children vote? :roll:

90% of those eligible voted. The turnout was 90%.



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12 Mar 2013, 5:53 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Tequila wrote:

I've never, ever heard of any pro-Argentinian sentiment from the Falklands.*

OK, sorry, that's a lie - Argentina offered Argentinian citizenship to all 3,000 islanders. One Falklander took it up and moved to Argentina.


False dichotomy- how prevailant is the pro independence lobby?


What is wrong with a pro-independence? It is not the majority position, but by virtue of wanting independence, they also don't want to be part of Argentina. I don't know how it can be made clearer.


No, i was directly targeting Tequila's point that because some people failed to vote for Argentine rule, it inherently means they must be for British rule.

Do keep up.


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Tequila
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12 Mar 2013, 5:53 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
90% of those eligible voted. The turnout was 90%.


All but three of the electors voted for Britain. No-one at all, ever, wants Argentine sovereignty on the islands - and who could possibly be surprised?



Last edited by Tequila on 12 Mar 2013, 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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12 Mar 2013, 5:54 pm

thomas81 wrote:
No, i was directly targeting Tequila's point that because some people failed to vote for Argentine rule, it inherently means they must be for British rule.


It's as makes no difference. 90% of the entire Falkland Islands electorate (with three exceptions) voted for British rule.

Three people voted for no British rule. At least one of those wanted independence.

This is Zimbabwe-ish in terms of its one-sidedness of numbers.



Last edited by Tequila on 12 Mar 2013, 5:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

thomas81
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12 Mar 2013, 5:54 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
0_equals_true wrote:
Half? Your maths is not strong. The turn out was 90%, which election have you been to with a 90% turnout?



"Some 1,517 British citizens out of a population of 2,900 cast their ballots"

I'm no Stephen Hawking but i'm fairly certain 1517 is NOT 90% of 2900.


Yes you are not. How many children vote? :roll:

90% of those eligible voted. The turnout was 90%.


It didnt give a specific demographic breakdown by age. Thats the fault of the person who wrote the article, not mine.


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12 Mar 2013, 5:56 pm

thomas81 wrote:
It didnt give a specific demographic breakdown by age. Thats the fault of the person who wrote the article, not mine.


Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...

People over the age of 18 can vote. 90% of the entire electorate voted. Three people out of 1517 voted for no British sovereignty, and one of those wants FI independence (probably with the British remaining).