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techstepgenr8tion
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24 Mar 2005, 3:02 pm

Feste-Fenris wrote:
Good point...

The fact that Bush had no plans to rebuild Iraq or win over the hearts and minds of Iraqis... and that Abu Ghraib was allowed to happen shows what American conservativism is doing...


I think all these insurgents are doing a much better job of persuading the Iraqi people who their friends and who their enemies realy are. Yeah, they only want us there untill they're strong enough to run their own country but for now they know they need our help and they know that our aim is to see that happen (whether our desire for this is a Sun Tzu strategy against terrorism, the desire to spread freedom and democracy, or if just a ploy to conquer the whole world for oil). We're training their police, we're training their soldiers, and were doing what we can to round up all the riffraff who are trying to round up and execute many of these trainees or intimidate their families.



thechadmaster
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29 Mar 2005, 6:38 pm

Scoots5012 wrote:
Bec wrote:
Richard Nixon was actually more left-wing than Bill Clinton.


Bill Clinton was fairly middle of the road. It was also during his first term when the republicans took over congress. It was the second biggest shift of political power in US history. Conservative pundits will tell you that Hiliary's health care plan was what shifted the tide, but I tend not to believe it.

Bec wrote:
The democratic party has actually made a shift to the right, but the American people have made a shift farther to the right.


I have to disagree with you on the first point. The leaders of the democratic party have shut out and ingored the more moderate voices in the party like Zel Miller, who was the key note speaker at the 1992 democratic convention, and who has now written a book about the delcline of party.

Another example of the party shifting to the left would be the filibuster of judical canidates in the senate. Back in 1991 when the Clarence Thomas fiasco was going on, the sentate didn't even have the courage to filibuster his nomination. If anyone thinks the fall-out from clarence thomas was bad, just wait and see how bad things get when Bush tries to nominate someone.

In 1961 JKF was talking about massive tax cuts for the rich in the USA, something a party line democrat would never even think about today.

Clinton made America into the greatest country in the world, Bush has P'd everyone off and made them want to bomb us.

Heil Clinton :jester:


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16 Apr 2005, 4:41 pm

I could rant about Neo-Cons all day and never finish, they're so evil... :evil:



Metal Rat
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16 Dec 2019, 12:20 pm

Well, People for centuries had one problem for so long that they cannot imagine that they now have the exact opposite problem today. For instance, for Centuries people starved; so, even today they cannot even imagine that now we have the exact opposite problem, namely Obesity. Similarly, in the past, Whites have been Racist. Of course, they still are. Only not in the way one would assume.

After all, there is a plague of White Self Hate. The White Race's hatred has turned inward. It is most obvious in the Political Left, of course.



The_Walrus
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16 Dec 2019, 5:35 pm

That’s quite the necrobump... 8O

Very interesting thread which shows how discussion has changed, and not changed, in the past 14 years. Particularly liked the references to Howard Dean and “Hillary’s healthcare plan”.

Agree with the thrust of the OP and most of the replies. Anticapitalists tend to grossly overestimate the efficacy and electoral appeal of their ideology. The Democratic Party remains a force largely for moderates and liberals despite the efforts of leftists to hijack it. The Republican Party has moved even further right than in Bush’s day.

As someone said, anticapitalism isn’t as morally repugnant as ultraconservatism so if Sanders or Warren win the Democratic nomination then I’ll reluctantly back them from afar. As irritating as I find them, and as many lives as they would cost, they will be better for the country and the planet than any more Trumpian nonsense.



Tim_Tex
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17 Dec 2019, 9:04 am

My main concern is that is Trump is removed, Mike Pence will try to turn our country into a theocracy. As a Lutheran, I would be considered an apostate by Pence.

I am also concerned he will:
make conversion therapy mandatory
do a nationwide version of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act he did in Indiana
ban all non-marital, non-procreational sex
bring back Prohibition
do a total abortion ban, like the one in Alabama

And we can forget about marijuana or public nudity being legal. (Pence would ban them even in places where they are currently legal)

I mentioned in another thread that, despite me being a moderate, Klobuchar/Weld supporter, it would take extreme, even revolutionary measures to get the Bible Belt and the Heartland on par with California and New York on social issues. However, in reality, I would like to see both parties move to the center.


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17 Dec 2019, 9:09 am

I look at the same stories on both CNN and FOX.  Where the two stories match, therein lies the truth.  Where they are similar, but not the same, that is worthy of further study.  Where they completely disagree is usually a matter of differing perspectives, opinions, and agendas.


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17 Dec 2019, 11:55 am

Metal Rat wrote:
Well, People for centuries had one problem for so long that they cannot imagine that they now have the exact opposite problem today. For instance, for Centuries people starved; so, even today they cannot even imagine that now we have the exact opposite problem, namely Obesity. Similarly, in the past, Whites have been Racist. Of course, they still are. Only not in the way one would assume.

After all, there is a plague of White Self Hate. The White Race's hatred has turned inward. It is most obvious in the Political Left, of course.


Do you have to bump every single 15 year old post you encounter and have a thought about?


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