Cultural Atavism?

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Its earlier in that its pre-Christian chronologically. Its not new ground. Its going to come with its own host of problems which will lead to a rapid realization with dreamy ideals about this change that its not greener pastures.

Where this does kind of jump off into the 'woo' though is that there has been a disctinct agenda for this. One flank of this, Freemasonry, is behind the secular humanist thrust and has been strongly on the move with this since the 1870's (Carbonari, kulturkampf, further separation of church and state - its logical follow-through of why the Speculatives were founded in 1717) while the theosophic societies and Lucius Trust have been doing everything possible to relax social standards, remove the restraining hand of Christianity on culture, but where it gets more specific is that they're push is toward the occult, pushing New Age, pushing the magick, witches, and teen vampires type Hollywood movies, and I have to be clear - ie. they have their own goals which are not in the least atheistic or secular humanist.

I really feel bad for anyone who believes that spirits or the bible are nonsense right now though, in the sense that they're going to get hit incredibly hard ontologically in two ways rather than just one with what we have coming at us. Aside from the US economy being set to implode in a way that it never has before (the Fed being out of ability to lower interest rates or increase liquidity) we're looking at a government that will also have the means to seize 401k's, causing social order to be absolutely set on fire over here, and not only will we have other countries coming into help clamp down on order - it'll really be a roll-over and loot operation. There will also be a supernatural element to an extent like we've never seen or felt in our lives (to which most people sadly either believe doesn't exist or believe to be benevolent) but, I know that topic is very difficult to discuss with any maturity in this forum so I'll leave that for another thread.

I suppose I'm changing the topic in rather rapid succession there but the argument would be that the gods of Egypt - Osiris, Isis, Horus, Thoth, etc., the gods of Greek and Roman mythology, etc. all very much do exist. They're lower case 'g' gods from a very particular standpoint though and like the pagans knew them then our paganised culture is getting to know them now - much to the applause I'm sure of the theosophic society and those of the occultic persuasion.

While I'm sure I'll get my hand slapped for even invoking the 'supernatural' I think its critical for people to see just how subtly it meshes in with our world, our culture, our environment, ie. that its really something very much couched in what we consider the normal and quite often we won't even realize what we're seeing when we see it. Doing some research though on the topics of the occult though and even having had my own experiences when I was guiled across the boundary from long-standing agnosticism into that - I feel like I kind of owe it to let people know that there's a fire in the theater even knowing that if people can't see it yet it'll be seen in incredibly bad taste; doesn't change the reality that it needs to be done.

Ofcourse.

It shoulda been obvious.

Its all the fault of the Freemasons.

The freemasons lead to the Khardashians which which will lead to the collapse of the USA, and all of Western Civilization.

Western christian civilization cant possible survive the twin assaults of the Khardashians, and the Twilight series.

Actually -in her latest pic on the grocery store checkout tabloids Kim Khardashian actually looks much like one of those upper paleolithic 'venus figurines'- she's gotten fat and curvy with engorged breasts (partially because she is with child)- but like those stone age figurines- still hot ( atleast IMHO).

Does kinda make you wonder at the iconography.

So it must all be a deliberate plot to take us all back to BEFORE the Greco-Romans- all the way back to the cave man days!

A deliberate plot I tell you!

yawn....

I hadnt read all the way through your long post.
Ill forgive the seeming paranoia about the freemasons and other secret socieites in the first paragraph.

So the ghist of what you are saying is that the Pagan Gods of old were/are real entitites.

And you're contention is...what?

That we should all become christian fundies, or Islamic fundies, or what-have-you, to keep these entities from taking over and spreading somekind of havoc?

I guess he took his marbles, and went home!

We will never learn how to stave off the coming apocalypse brought on by reality TV awakening the pagan gods of old!

I like the idea of seeing the divine in all kinds of places. I'm not sure I would actually idolatrize anything, though. There may be one God, or thousands of spirits, or both, but I'm not going to worship any of them. It's enough to glimpse them every now and then.

That I can relate to: seeing the divine in a sunset, or in the milky way on a clear night, or in your child's face.

I prefer to think of it as having an underlying unity than being broken up into many entities.

But if you do break it up into spirits or plural gods than- all hell will break loose- according the OP.

I don't see it as any sort of genuine worship at all.

The Greek & Roman gods and goddesses were worshiped because they were anthropomorphized descriptors of certain natural phenomena. Apollo was the sun. Without him, it would not have risen. Ceres's favor explained why certain fields flourished and others faltered when we had no idea as to the idea of soil nutrients and the idea that they can be diminished. Neptune was the raging sea, and his favor would enable the sailor to pass. The gods were ascribed superhuman powers over nature. Nobody has claimed that the Kardashians can magically make a man fall in love, like Aphrodite.

As far as atavism, the most basic, natural form of human mythology is animism. If we were to revert to a religious baseline, that would have to be it. We see evidence of retention of this form of belief today, such as the continued belief in water-witching. However, it is not prevalent enough to be considered truly atavistic.

What I could suggest is that the celebration of celebrities is akin to the honor paid to the kings of the Greek city states, such as Agamemnon and Menelaus, who were discussed in plays long after their death, taking on a mythical status. Or perhaps the British peerage, who published books on who was marrying who and determining bloodlines. Celebrities are not gods, so much as the aristocracy. The only atavistic thing that they embody is our natural preference for hierarchy.

The trouble with the original poster is that he obviously has never seen Washington DC, nor has ever heard of either the Renaissance, nor of the Enlightenment.


The US capital was designed and built during a sudden rage of interest throughout the western world in the pre Christian classical civilization of Greece and Rome- its philosophy, its ideals, and its art and archetecture.

All of the greek style buildings ( and that Egyptian obelisk known as the Washington Monument) would be 'cultural atavism' according the OP. But most consider the Enlightenment "neoclassicism", that molded the city of washington, to have been a positive stage in the rise of the modern west.

And- we are all still here! EIghteenth Centurey neo-classicism didnt result in an apocalypse.

All of those pagan Greek columns and anthropormorphic statues of abstractions such as "justice", and "liberty", as god-like female figures you see on public buildings in washington, should have awoken the gods of Olympus a long time ago- and those gods should have done their havoc by now- if the OP's logic held.