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Why are these people so cross with Nigel Lawson?

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puddingmouse
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08 May 2013, 2:15 pm

nessa238 wrote:

I don't care if we go extinct - it's arrogant to think we're the main species on this planet in my opinion; we are one of many and if we can't adapt we'll die out - simple as that.

I don't think we'll die from climate change though; nuclear or biological warfare is far more of a risk in my opinion or a global pandemic

If only so much focus was put on the imminent risks

We can't last forever anyway - all resources will die out eventually, including light/heat from the sun


Humans have the ingenuity to adapt and if we don't do it, we might as well try. I don't dig fatalism.


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nessa238
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08 May 2013, 2:48 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
nessa238 wrote:

I don't care if we go extinct - it's arrogant to think we're the main species on this planet in my opinion; we are one of many and if we can't adapt we'll die out - simple as that.

I don't think we'll die from climate change though; nuclear or biological warfare is far more of a risk in my opinion or a global pandemic

If only so much focus was put on the imminent risks

We can't last forever anyway - all resources will die out eventually, including light/heat from the sun


Humans have the ingenuity to adapt and if we don't do it, we might as well try. I don't dig fatalism.


We haven't all died yet so we have adapted so far and i'm sure we'll deal with problems as they occur

If we do, we just weren't up to the task, just like the dinosaurs

I'm not saying we shouldn't problem-solve, just that we should put things into better perspective and focus
on more important stuff mainly



The_Walrus
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08 May 2013, 4:04 pm

nessa238 wrote:

I don't care if we go extinct - it's arrogant to think we're the main species on this planet in my opinion; we are one of many and if we can't adapt we'll die out - simple as that.

I don't think we'll die from climate change though; nuclear or biological warfare is far more of a risk in my opinion or a global pandemic

If only so much focus was put on the imminent risks

We can't last forever anyway - all resources will die out eventually, including light/heat from the sun

See, I think it might be for the best if the human race did go extinct, because we run the risk of taking most of the rest of the complex life on this planet with us, but only if we did so voluntarily, by not reproducing. We should not gamble with the lives of 7 billion people, and they will probably die in horrible ways- dehydration, sunstroke, starvation.

Sure, all things must pass, one day the universe will end, but that doesn't mean we should ignore very real issues that will affect the lives of most people on the planet reasonably quickly.

puddingmouse wrote:
It's really too late to set back the damage caused by anthropogenic global warming, especially with our current population and the desire for third world countries to develop (even if they don't follow the Western industrialisation model, the lifestyle they will adopt will increase emissions). We're going to have to adapt. In the future, our lives will change so much that no-one will care if humans caused the mess (although the scientific consensus is that they did). I think arguing about AGW will be so pointless in 30 years time, let alone making it a party platform to deny it - we will all have to come together and focus on what to do. Science is our best hope. That should be a funding priority, even in a recession. I know the military-industrial complex drives a lot of scientific discovery, but the kind of research we need the most for our future can't come from that sector.

I think we can set back the damage. It will probably take geo-engineering as well as decarbonising the economy and finding a cheap(ish) clean source of electricity.



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08 May 2013, 4:54 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
nessa238 wrote:

I don't care if we go extinct - it's arrogant to think we're the main species on this planet in my opinion; we are one of many and if we can't adapt we'll die out - simple as that.

I don't think we'll die from climate change though; nuclear or biological warfare is far more of a risk in my opinion or a global pandemic

If only so much focus was put on the imminent risks

We can't last forever anyway - all resources will die out eventually, including light/heat from the sun

See, I think it might be for the best if the human race did go extinct, because we run the risk of taking most of the rest of the complex life on this planet with us, but only if we did so voluntarily, by not reproducing. We should not gamble with the lives of 7 billion people, and they will probably die in horrible ways- dehydration, sunstroke, starvation.

Sure, all things must pass, one day the universe will end, but that doesn't mean we should ignore very real issues that will affect the lives of most people on the planet reasonably quickly.

puddingmouse wrote:
It's really too late to set back the damage caused by anthropogenic global warming, especially with our current population and the desire for third world countries to develop (even if they don't follow the Western industrialisation model, the lifestyle they will adopt will increase emissions). We're going to have to adapt. In the future, our lives will change so much that no-one will care if humans caused the mess (although the scientific consensus is that they did). I think arguing about AGW will be so pointless in 30 years time, let alone making it a party platform to deny it - we will all have to come together and focus on what to do. Science is our best hope. That should be a funding priority, even in a recession. I know the military-industrial complex drives a lot of scientific discovery, but the kind of research we need the most for our future can't come from that sector.

I think we can set back the damage. It will probably take geo-engineering as well as decarbonising the economy and finding a cheap(ish) clean source of electricity.


Good luck with that then, just don't ask for any money to fund it - we're in the middle of a recession remember?



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08 May 2013, 5:10 pm

We're not going to be in a recession forever. Furthermore, there is a fusion generator in the pipeline, and other countries can pay for research, like China and the Arab nations. If worst comes to worst and we don't find a fusion generator or other "new" source of energy, we can electrify transport and use fission generators. Geoengineering is probably the bigger challenge. If we're somehow still in recession in 40 years and things aren't looking better, then we'll have to look at cutting other things and raising taxes so we can pour more money into climate science.

(Still struggling to believe you're saying "we'll adapt" but don't actually think we should try to adapt- our best resource is our intelligence, and by extension our technology. Natural selection is in essence a bad thing, and we've largely transcended it.)



nessa238
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08 May 2013, 5:27 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
We're not going to be in a recession forever. Furthermore, there is a fusion generator in the pipeline, and other countries can pay for research, like China and the Arab nations. If worst comes to worst and we don't find a fusion generator or other "new" source of energy, we can electrify transport and use fission generators. Geoengineering is probably the bigger challenge. If we're somehow still in recession in 40 years and things aren't looking better, then we'll have to look at cutting other things and raising taxes so we can pour more money into climate science.

(Still struggling to believe you're saying "we'll adapt" but don't actually think we should try to adapt- our best resource is our intelligence, and by extension our technology. Natural selection is in essence a bad thing, and we've largely transcended it.)


You think natural selection has been transcended??

I would totally disagree

As to whether it's a bad thing is a more complex issue as we have all the ethics to consider but it's alive and kicking
as far as I'm concerned

When I say we'll adapt to climate change, obviously that means we'll do what we can at the time; I just don't think it should be so high on the agenda

Do you think people in Syria are bothered about it?

Middle class lefty liberal types are the people who love the whole climate change/green agenda - I suggest they form a project group and solve it all on our behalf

The rest of us will concentrate on more pressing issues like ensuring we've got enough money to live on



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08 May 2013, 5:37 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
I think we can set back the damage. It will probably take geo-engineering as well as decarbonising the economy and finding a cheap(ish) clean source of electricity.


All of those things will be necessary, but I think we've already passed one of the tipping points.


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08 May 2013, 6:05 pm

nessa238 wrote:

Middle class lefty liberal types are the people who love the whole climate change/green agenda - I suggest they form a project group and solve it all on our behalf

The rest of us will concentrate on more pressing issues like ensuring we've got enough money to live on


The economy and the environment are interrelated now and will increasingly be so in the future, especially in developing nations where the worst impact of climate change occurs. Research into green technologies could actually even help the global economy. I think it probably will.


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nessa238
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08 May 2013, 6:15 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
nessa238 wrote:

Middle class lefty liberal types are the people who love the whole climate change/green agenda - I suggest they form a project group and solve it all on our behalf

The rest of us will concentrate on more pressing issues like ensuring we've got enough money to live on


The economy and the environment are interrelated now and will increasingly be so in the future, especially in developing nations where the worst impact of climate change occurs. Research into green technologies could actually even help the global economy. I think it probably will.


The climate change is having zero impact on my life right now so I find it very hard to be bothered about it.

I don't drive or fly in aeroplanes; no one's giving me any kind of reward for being so green though so imo it's
all about what people can be sold to salvage their middle class angst, nothing to do with being conscientious at all

I don't live in the North pole or wherever the icebergs are melting but it's to be expected imo, whatever humans happen to be doing.

Start taxing the companies that directly impact on these places (if they are) and leave me out of it as I'm not doing anything



puddingmouse
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08 May 2013, 6:18 pm

nessa238 wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
nessa238 wrote:

Middle class lefty liberal types are the people who love the whole climate change/green agenda - I suggest they form a project group and solve it all on our behalf

The rest of us will concentrate on more pressing issues like ensuring we've got enough money to live on


The economy and the environment are interrelated now and will increasingly be so in the future, especially in developing nations where the worst impact of climate change occurs. Research into green technologies could actually even help the global economy. I think it probably will.


The climate change is having zero impact on my life right now so I find it very hard to be bothered about it.

I don't drive or fly in aeroplanes and no one's givimg me any kind of reward for being so green though so imo it's
all about what people can be sold to salvage their middle class angst, nothing to do with being conscientious at all

I don't live in the North pole or wherever the icebergs are melting but it's to be expected imo, whatever humans happen to be doing.

Start taxing the companies that directly impact on these places and leave me out of it as I'm not doing anything


I'm working poor and I don't drive or fly. I just like the think about the future of the world because my personality is like that.

As for taxing polluting companies, we're better off researching whole new technologies, imo.


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nessa238
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08 May 2013, 6:30 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
nessa238 wrote:

Middle class lefty liberal types are the people who love the whole climate change/green agenda - I suggest they form a project group and solve it all on our behalf

The rest of us will concentrate on more pressing issues like ensuring we've got enough money to live on


The economy and the environment are interrelated now and will increasingly be so in the future, especially in developing nations where the worst impact of climate change occurs. Research into green technologies could actually even help the global economy. I think it probably will.


The climate change is having zero impact on my life right now so I find it very hard to be bothered about it.

I don't drive or fly in aeroplanes and no one's givimg me any kind of reward for being so green though so imo it's
all about what people can be sold to salvage their middle class angst, nothing to do with being conscientious at all

I don't live in the North pole or wherever the icebergs are melting but it's to be expected imo, whatever humans happen to be doing.

Start taxing the companies that directly impact on these places and leave me out of it as I'm not doing anything


I'm working poor and I don't drive or fly. I just like the think about the future of the world because my personality is like that.

As for taxing polluting companies, we're better off researching whole new technologies, imo.


I take an interest in global and local community issues but it's more from a perspective of what impacts more directly on people like war, hunger, torture, child abuse and also animal suffering. Locally I've worked to get support services for adults on the autistic spectrum set up. I prefer to see more tangible results for my input.



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08 May 2013, 6:35 pm

Think globally, act locally and all that. I see poverty, climate and exploitation of natural resources as deeply related issues...but I do most of my politcal action around sexual/gender issues and stuff like deprived communities and housing. Saving the world is up to people with more power than me, but since I vote for these people and they theoretically work for me, I think I have a duty to be informed.


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09 May 2013, 11:45 am

nessa238 wrote:
You think natural selection has been transcended??

I would totally disagree

As to whether it's a bad thing is a more complex issue as we have all the ethics to consider but it's alive and kicking
as far as I'm concerned

When I say we'll adapt to climate change, obviously that means we'll do what we can at the time; I just don't think it should be so high on the agenda

Do you think people in Syria are bothered about it?

Yes, it has been largely transcended (but not entirely), at least in the West. We can cure a myriad of diseases that would have been fatal a few hundred years ago. We have fertility treatment which means many "infertile" people can still have children if they want. We have no natural predators. Obviously in less developed countries that isn't true.

People in Syria should be worried about it, even if it is secondary to the civil war.

nessa238 wrote:
The climate change is having zero impact on my life right now so I find it very hard to be bothered about it.

I don't drive or fly in aeroplanes; no one's giving me any kind of reward for being so green though so imo it's
all about what people can be sold to salvage their middle class angst, nothing to do with being conscientious at all

I don't live in the North pole or wherever the icebergs are melting but it's to be expected imo, whatever humans happen to be doing.

Start taxing the companies that directly impact on these places (if they are) and leave me out of it as I'm not doing anything

Climate change is having an impact on your life. The price of your food is driven up by droughts or floods, for example.

Your reward for being green is money- lower energy bills and lower transport costs.

Science doesn't change to make middle class people feel better...