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do you strive to be a true christian?

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Fnord
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12 Jun 2013, 9:41 am

TheValk wrote:
Why have I never seen a single Christian say anything about amputees growing limbs?

1. Because it's one of those things that Christians have no answers for.

2. Because when a human loses a limb, it doesn't grow back.

3. Because I have actually challenged Christians to explain this, while you likely haven't.


What I've listed above were just some of the answers they gave. The rest were their opinions on my lack of "spiritual enlightenment" which would inspire me to simply trust that "God is in Heaven, and all is right with the world", and not ask them any more questions.



ruveyn
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12 Jun 2013, 9:43 am

seaweasel wrote:
I had some live changing events over the last year and i have dedicated my life to live by the bible. I am striving to be a true christian? Are any of you?


You want to follow the Bible. Read in Deut. the commandment to carry a spade in order to dig a latrine hole when you need to take a dump. God's People dig their own holes far away from a water supply.

"You shall also have a place outside the camp and go out there, and you shall have a spade among your tools, and it shall be that when you sit down outside, you shall dig with it and shall turn to cover up your excrement."
- Deut 23:12-13 NAS

ruveyn



Spiderpig
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12 Jun 2013, 9:59 am

Schneekugel wrote:
Growing limbs is lizardlike, lizards are snakelike, and snakes are evil, so if someone would manage to regrow a limb, he has to be burned. Didnt you know that? What do you do with your witches around your area?


That’s brilliant!


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Ancalagon
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12 Jun 2013, 10:05 am

Fnord wrote:
TheValk wrote:
Why have I never seen a single Christian say anything about amputees growing limbs?

1. Because it's one of those things that Christians have no answers for.

What do you mean? If you want answers, there must be a question. What is the question?

I think what you're doing here is trying to imply that Christians believe something they don't, in the hopes that you can either trip a few of them up who don't see what you're doing, or that you can imply that they're wrong without bothering to specify what they're wrong about.


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TheValk
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12 Jun 2013, 10:13 am

ruveyn wrote:
You want to follow the Bible. Read in Deut. the commandment to carry a spade in order to dig a latrine hole when you need to take a dump. God's People dig their own holes far away from a water supply.

"You shall also have a place outside the camp and go out there, and you shall have a spade among your tools, and it shall be that when you sit down outside, you shall dig with it and shall turn to cover up your excrement."
- Deut 23:12-13 NAS

ruveyn


So are the Jews still doing that? It seems that everyone who appears to bear this sustained hatred for the Old Testament directs their complaints towards Christians who view many of the old laws as obsolete and not those who are still to follow them. I understand the paranoia of being called an antisemite very well, but at least don't bother the wrong audience with an irrelevant issue.

Ancalagon wrote:
What do you mean? If you want answers, there must be a question. What is the question?

I think what you're doing here is trying to imply that Christians believe something they don't, in the hopes that you can either trip a few of them up who don't see what you're doing, or that you can imply that they're wrong without bothering to specify what they're wrong about.


It appears that Fnord's question is in fact a not-so-polite request, almost an order for over the top miracles. Do you happen to remember the name of the other person asking this question to Yeshua of Nazareth nearly 2000 years ago? Seems that Fnord would prefer he had given a different answer to the tempter.

And Fnord, have you tried challenging countryside Christians lacking in education (possibly some of them compensating for it in other ways) about the identity of Mary Magdalene by chance? I'm sure you'll receive all sorts of interesting misinformation, surely enough to torture people on the internet with it.



Fnord
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12 Jun 2013, 7:07 pm

TheValk wrote:
It appears that Fnord's question is in fact a not-so-polite request, almost an order for over the top miracles. Do you happen to remember the name of the other person asking this question to Yeshua of Nazareth nearly 2000 years ago? Seems that Fnord would prefer he had given a different answer to the tempter.

The Question: "Why is it that miraculous healings seem to only occur with 'invisible' ailments like migraines or undocumented cancers, but a 'visible' ailment like a missing limb or eye never seems to be cured miraculously?"

It seems to me that so-called Christian faith healers are missing out on an opportunity to demonstrate incontrovertible proof of their alleged "Gift of Healing", the power of faith, and the existence of God all in one feel swoop.

I mean, if that scene from Iron Man III could be played out on live TV - that scene where the woman's missing left arm regrew in only a few seconds - only the most obtuse individual would deny it.

And if the same miracle could be performed repeatedly (just imagine all of those disabled soldiers at Walter Reed), even those same obtuse people would likely be convinced.

TheValk wrote:
And Fnord, have you tried challenging countryside Christians lacking in education (possibly some of them compensating for it in other ways) about the identity of Mary Magdalene by chance?

I have,

TheValk wrote:
I'm sure you'll receive all sorts of interesting misinformation, surely enough to torture people on the internet with it.

I have.

By the way, I'm still waiting for the OP to reply to my question: "Do you want me to PM the full list to you?"



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12 Jun 2013, 7:20 pm

Fnord wrote:
TheValk wrote:
It appears that Fnord's question is in fact a not-so-polite request, almost an order for over the top miracles. Do you happen to remember the name of the other person asking this question to Yeshua of Nazareth nearly 2000 years ago? Seems that Fnord would prefer he had given a different answer to the tempter.

The Question: "Why is it that miraculous healings seem to only occur with 'invisible' ailments like migraines or undocumented cancers, but a 'visible' ailment like a missing limb or eye never seems to be cured miraculously?"

It seems to me that so-called Christian faith healers are missing out on an opportunity to demonstrate incontrovertible proof of their alleged "Gift of Healing", the power of faith, and the existence of God all in one feel swoop.

I mean, if that scene from Iron Man III could be played out on live TV - that scene where the woman's missing left arm regrew in only a few seconds - only the most obtuse individual would deny it.

And if the same miracle could be performed repeatedly (just imagine all of those disabled soldiers at Walter Reed), even those same obtuse people would likely be convinced.

TheValk wrote:
And Fnord, have you tried challenging countryside Christians lacking in education (possibly some of them compensating for it in other ways) about the identity of Mary Magdalene by chance?

I have,

TheValk wrote:
I'm sure you'll receive all sorts of interesting misinformation, surely enough to torture people on the internet with it.

I have.

By the way, I'm still waiting for the OP to reply to my question: "Do you want me to PM the full list to you?"


Faith healers are charlatans who besmirch Christianity's good name.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Fnord
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12 Jun 2013, 7:38 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Faith healers are charlatans who besmirch Christianity's good name. -Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

No, really? How very interesting!

;)



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12 Jun 2013, 7:41 pm

Fnord wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Faith healers are charlatans who besmirch Christianity's good name. -Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

No, really? How very interesting!

;)


Yes, really. :P

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ruveyn
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12 Jun 2013, 8:10 pm

TheValk wrote:

So are the Jews still doing that? It seems that everyone who appears to bear this sustained hatred for the Old Testament directs their complaints towards Christians who view many of the old laws as obsolete and not those who are still to follow them. I understand the paranoia of being called an antisemite very well, but at least don't bother the wrong audience with an irrelevant issue.



God gave 61`3 commandments to the Israelites. How can a law of God become obsolete. A commandment can be flouted, ignored, not observed but it can never become obsolete.

You Christian folk are not obliged to obey the commandments God gave to Israel. You are just find and dandy with the seven Noachic laws.

ruveyn



Fnord
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12 Jun 2013, 9:45 pm

ruveyn wrote:
TheValk wrote:
So are the Jews still doing that? It seems that everyone who appears to bear this sustained hatred for the Old Testament directs their complaints towards Christians who view many of the old laws as obsolete and not those who are still to follow them. I understand the paranoia of being called an antisemite very well, but at least don't bother the wrong audience with an irrelevant issue.
God gave 61`3 commandments to the Israelites. How can a law of God become obsolete. A commandment can be flouted, ignored, not observed but it can never become obsolete. You Christian folk are not obliged to obey the commandments God gave to Israel. You are just find and dandy with the seven Noachic laws. ruveyn

I find it difficult enough to obey traffic laws, without having to even remember His laws, as well!

You Jews are blessed - for many of you, the Mitzvot are impressed upon you from infancy (8+ days after birth). For us gentiles ... our parents may get around to explaining why we should behave well towards others, if they don't resort to physical abuse first.



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13 Jun 2013, 12:49 am

Ancalagon wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
Strive? You must be Catholic. :P

Evangelicals claim to rely on grace only through faith.

Thanks for taking the topic seriously. That's unfortunately rare on WP in PPR when the topic is religion.

In my experience, "strive" is a fairly normal word for it, and I'm not Catholic. I think every flavor of Christianity has a different take on the faith/works thing, but pretty much everyone agrees that they're like two scissor blades -- you can't have one without the other. The thing we disagree on is which one is more important.

There's a relevant Bible quote (that most Christians probably recognize) and something C. S. Lewis said that was relevant. I'm too lazy to look either of them up now, but if people want to discuss it, I might.


Catholics strive to be true Christians. Most Evangelicals claim they strive because they're true Christians. Here is the difference.



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13 Jun 2013, 12:55 am

MCalavera wrote:
Ancalagon wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
Strive? You must be Catholic. :P

Evangelicals claim to rely on grace only through faith.

Thanks for taking the topic seriously. That's unfortunately rare on WP in PPR when the topic is religion.

In my experience, "strive" is a fairly normal word for it, and I'm not Catholic. I think every flavor of Christianity has a different take on the faith/works thing, but pretty much everyone agrees that they're like two scissor blades -- you can't have one without the other. The thing we disagree on is which one is more important.

There's a relevant Bible quote (that most Christians probably recognize) and something C. S. Lewis said that was relevant. I'm too lazy to look either of them up now, but if people want to discuss it, I might.


Catholics strive to be true Christians. Most Evangelicals claim they strive because they're true Christians. Here is the difference.


Among mainline denominations, such as my own Lutherans, you strive to be a true Christian (morality, loving your neighbor) to reciprocate God's grace and love.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



MCalavera
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13 Jun 2013, 12:59 am

But do you believe you're already saved? Or are Lutherans similar to Catholics in this regard? I've lost memory of what Lutherans believe when it comes to the matter of salvation.



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13 Jun 2013, 2:54 am

MCalavera wrote:
But do you believe you're already saved? Or are Lutherans similar to Catholics in this regard? I've lost memory of what Lutherans believe when it comes to the matter of salvation.


Yes, we believe by grace we're already saved. But we don't believe in irresistible grace - to use the more popular term, once saved always saved - as is popular among evangelicals. Rather, we believe any believer can by his or her own initiative fall away from salvation. Though that person can be brought back by the work of the Holy Spirit; so all isn't necessarily lost.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



MCalavera
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13 Jun 2013, 4:21 am

Yes, many Evangelical groups are of the "just believe and you're saved forever" belief, but there are also many other Evangelical groups similar to what you believe in this regard, where either holiness is taken seriously or faith is something you must keep holding in order to remain saved.

But Catholics are clear that salvation is by grace through faith and works. Good works, in the Catholic sense, are a way to salvation, not an expression of being saved.