What should your taxes pay for?

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Since this thread is already shot, I'll throw in another question to the OP, what do you think of tax preference items? Some economists and tax experts consider them an economic subsidy. Things like the deduction for home mortgage interest and home real estate taxes. On the "higher end", the renewable energy credits are always a popular topic.

You overlook one important fact. The courts have decided that Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare, and even public schools are all okay.

What are you going to do with judges who interpret the law against your wishes? Pull a Second Amendment on them?

Do you want law courts to function as they did in Nazi Germany, and only render verdicts that are consistent with your particular ideology?

The army and police will certainly bow to your wishes. Law courts may take some bullying. Thank God for the Second Amendment. We'll get those judges in line.

/\Ive noticed a lot of fear of the 2nd Amendment from this individual...,.

Fear? Heavens No! I'm not a judge any more.

Welfare is only a 2-5 year limited term entitlement. If the Republicans get their way social security,, education and medicare will only be a 2-5 year limited term entitlement.

The courts in Nazi Germany decide that Jews were sub-human. Just because a Court decides something does not mean that something is right or just.

There is no doubt that government theft of the fruits of one's labor is legal in the United States. We live under a regime that practices low calorie fascist collectivism.

Everyone owes their "fair share" and the government complete with its guns, chains and dungeons gets to decide what is fair.

ruveyn

Yes. But you stated that you wanted to be taxed in order to support courts. Why would you want to be taxed to support an entity that lacks righteousness and justice?



Yes, but to be fair, it was our elected leaders who put this into practice. And, you've outlived a lot of other people on social security.

And I'm an astronaut.

I live in a country with a very high tax-"difference" between rich + middle class and poor class. I am definitley a taxpayer and not a taxreceiver. But I think you have a very small perspective, if you reduce it only to money. So there are lots of stuff I receive as exchange for my taxes. I receive a secure neighborhood, where noone needs to rob me to feed himself or buy his kids medications. I receive a country, where normally noone is thinking at carcrashs at the costs. So maybe its my fault, maybe its the fault of the other, but in the end both of us are insuranced, so there is no need to leave a hurted carcrash victim alone to avoid to pay for someones hospital bills. We simply see it as a fact, that if people cant afford the absolute basic needs, then he will steal and rob to acchieve them. Before someone dies because of hunger, he will instead try to get some food, anyway how. So I can feed him, or pay instead more money for more security people that are guarding me, more security stuff around my house, alarms, watchmen, neighborhood security, weapons .... So I wouldnt save money anyway, if the taxes were reduced. But choosing the first solution gives me a secure neighborhood, while the second solution forces me to jail myself in my own house, to avoid certain areas, ....

I think I can compare it pretty well, my parents lived in south africe before and still have friends there, that are visiting us sometimes with relatives of them. So they might pay much less taxes then we do, but are forced to pay much more privately for security instead. So when I have to pay anyway, I prefer to live in the country that doesnt need extra laws that allow woman to avoid stopping at empty crossings, because of them being robbed and raped so often. Or that allows me to send my child to school without security or myself guarding it to prevent assaults. Or that forces me to live in certain areas, to avoid being robbed every day because of me having more then my neighbors. Or that forces me to think, before understanding the question of our south african guests: "Where can I do a walk around here with the child?" (1-First thought: "Ehm.....wherever there is a street that fits your shoes?")

We also pay much taxes for our school systems, but I simply think its fair, also from an american view. As I understand the typical US-citizens is believing that if someone is willing to work hard for his success, then he should receive something from it. That goes well for adults that stand on their own feet and can decide on their own, if they are willing to work hard for a certain goal or not. But with 8 year old children it cant work, because they are not standing on their own. I cant say, that the success of an 8 year old is based on the effort he shows, when the lazy child that shows no effort is allowed to go to the better school, only because of his parents paying for it, while a child that is willing to work much harder for school and so giving us as society much more in return is forced to go to a lousy school, that cant teach him much, only because of his parents not being able to pay the better school. I also have advantages from it, because I dont get any benefits if lots of stupid students go to the best schools, without learning there anything and lots of smart students going to lousy schools that are teaching them nothing. The more good students we sent to good schools, the more interesting my country becomes for companies that are developing and researching, and the more good students with good jobs we have, the more they are paying taxes. ^^ So my father was a bus driver, but because of us children being supported, my sis studied medicind, I did engineering, my brother studied educator for history and english. The money we received while visiting school, we have payed back double time until now with the taxes we are paying.

I simply dont see the benefit of giving a child no school education because of his parents not being able to pay for it, giving a teenager no work because of him having no good school education, buying myself lots of security stuff and building an expensive jail with expensive guards, to give him in the end in the jail some work, in comparison to: giving him a good school education and let him repay the taxes he received as a child a dozend times with the taxes he pays, when he starts working on his own.

So it might be transfer payments, but I get transferred lots of benefits in exchange for the taxes as well.

We should be paying taxes for Peace and Quiet, Law and Order.

Government only can promote order in the society. It cannot promote Goodness.

ruveyn

You are using the word government as if is synonymous with state. States are not peaceful, they are violent protectors of tyranny. I don't believe defense should ever be delegated to a 3rd party institution. As long as you have employer employee relationships things will never be peaceful.

Last edited by RushKing on 20 Jun 2013, 10:52 am, edited 2 times in total.

There are few States which have no government and in almost all cases the State and the Government are tightly intertwined. There are no good governments, anywhere. There are only bad governments and worse governments.
There have never been any good governments or governments that ended up good, and there never will be. Why?
Human nature.

ruveyn

You can't do away with government, but you can do away with states. States maintain hierarchys with violence, they do not bring about peace. Its easy to look around and say, well this is human nature. Not really, our actions are being controlled by violent institutions. Our minds our being shaped by the institutions that control the mass media. We can change, but it wont be easy do to the power structure's grip over our lives.

State violence is controlled by human nature. The mass media only shapes your mind if you avail your mind to being shaped by them.

Yes, this.

That obviously requires one of two things. Either a police state which oppresses the people, or a state where all or the vast majority of people are content with their lot, otherwise there will be rioting and revolution.

Therefore, taxes should be used to provide every human with healthcare, education, a fire service, transport, housing, security, and enough money to live on. We must also ensure that job opportunities exist so that people can raise money to pay for these things.

Back then, there were people who viewed chattel slavery like wind. Would we have attempt to free chattel slaves if we thought we were incapable of freeing them? I do not want to accept statism, because doing so may help create a self fulfilling prophecy. I don't know the future of mankind, and neither do you.