imagine if London was occupied...

Post Reply New Topic

my last response to you.

Cherry picked individual cases are no proof of ethnic oppression. Hamas needs to realize that collateral damage happens when they provoke Israel over and over again for no real reason. If Hamas cared about the Palestinian people, they would not use women and children as human shields, nor would they place weapon storages near schools, daycare centers and hospitals.

When the most extreme of the anti-Zionist extremists openly claim that there is no occupation - and they run the government there[/b] - then I'm inclined to believe them.

Would you like the relevant quotes from senior Hamas ministers or not?



But why hide behind this? You support terrorist organisations that are against the existence of the State of Israel within any borders and that have committed assassinations and murders of Israeli civilians.

So what is there to talk about? There's no point in Israelis offering even to just up and leave Judea and Samaria, leaving it Judenfrei because we all know that you don't want them existing.

And at the moment, Judea and Samaria would just become another Gaza anyway if the Israelis left.

You're like the Palestinian negotiators that want a Palestinian state... and then want the "right of return" to apply to Israel. Meaning that there will be a Jew-free Palestinian state and an Arab-majority 'Israel'. Meaning permanent war.

Israel's behaviour in the Gaza strip is a collective punishment of an entire population. Its a war crime to punitively treat an entire populace because of the actions of a small minority. A precedence of this kind of behaviour is that of nazi Germany.

Anti-zionists are just antisemitists hiding behind a more modern label.

Emotive hysteria.


This is all presumption on your part.

Again, I repeat. If you're going to use collective punishment and a lack of government to justify oppression, then by extension you are absolving every authority that has persecuted the Jews.

If you're thinking of the barrier, it's prevented more than a thousand people from being killed. If Hamas were willing to negotiate on peaceful terms (note: Agreeing to a ceasefire you'll violate after a few weeks everytime DOES NOT count), there would be no need to take action.

Last edited by Kurgan on 30 Oct 2013, 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The original Zionists were anti-semites.

What is anti-semitic is to pre-suppose that Zionism represents all Jewry.

Are these guys anti-semitic too I suppose?

Not just the barrier. I'm thinking of the way that Israel arbitrarily prohibits Palestinian civillians accessing hospitals and other essential infrastructure (as depicted in the original video), how it curtails utilities, bombs targets with minimum regard for collateral deaths, arrests children and interns prisoners for months on end without charge.

You're cherry picking again, but they probably do have some internalized antisemitism. The first Zionist movements arose in the late 19th century, by secular jews.

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/jamie-glaz ... nst-hamas/
http://www.muslimsforisrael.com/
http://arabsforisrael.blogspot.no/

Palestinians are actually given treatment in Israeli hospitals often. Anti semitic journalists deliberately ignore this because it will harm their cause. Furthermore, Israel treats Syrian civilians free of charge, something Hamas would never do.

Shall we look at what the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine has done then?

Off we go:



and:



Forgive Israelis and Jews are not particularly keen on that offer given what was threatened in 1948 and 1967 and is continually aired in the Palestinian territories.

Yes, the one-state solution beloved of Electronic Intifada. This is code for an end to the State of Israel and a war on what will then be a vulnerable minority without the means to defend itself. At best, it will mean the odd pogrom and massacre every now and again. The odd 1929-style Hebron and the occasional riot and mass murder. At worst, it will be religious genocide.



How many Jews live in PA-controlled territory or Gaza? How many Jews live in Arab countries now compared to before they were forcibly expelled after 1948?



It's not a punishment of Palestinian Arabs. It's a simple self-defence measure to prevent Palestinian terrorists massacring Israeli civilians. In fact, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad openly admit that the erection of the walls basically killed their terrorist campaign overnight. And anyway, Palestinians are not Israeli citizens, nor are they in Israel proper.

I would personally love for all the walls not to be necessary any more, but it is up to Palestinians themselves to work up the courage to ban this murderous culture they have.

On the occasions that the soldiers actually let them through or don't bleed to death before they get there you mean.



You can't go around calling everyone who opposes Israel anti-semitic.

Of course what you're trying to do is throw enough mud, that some of it will stick.

this is what happens to you in Israel if you question the established order

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QiV9xn0RbI[/youtube]

Remember that Israel even gave hospital treatment to a family member of one of the leaders of Hamas.

Oh, and PFLP terrorist attacks:

Before 2000:

• The hijacking of an El Al flight from Rome to Lod airport in Israel on 23 July 1968. The Western media reported that the flight was targeted because the PFLP believed Israeli general Yitzhak Rabin, who was Israeli ambassador to the USA, was on board. Several individuals involved with the hijacking, including Leila Khaled deny this. The plane was diverted to Algiers, where 21 passengers and 11 crew members were held for 39 days, until 31 August;
• Gunmen opened fire on an El Al passenger jet in Athens about to take off for New York on 26 December 1968, killing one Israeli – this prompted a reprisal by Israel destroying airliners in Beirut;
• An attack on El Al passengers jet at Zürich airport on 18 February 1969, killing the co-pilot and wounding the pilot;
• The bombing of a Jerusalem supermarket on 20 February 1969, killing two Israelis and wounding twenty others;
• The hijacking of a TWA flight from Los Angeles to Damascus on 29 August 1969 by a PFLP cell led by Leila Khaled, who became the PFLP's most famous recruit. Two Israeli passengers were held for 44 days;
• Three adult Palestinians and three boys aged 14 and 15 years old threw grenades at the Israeli embassies in The Hague, Bonn and the El Al office in Brussels on the same day, 9 September 1969 with no casualties;
• Attack on a bus containing El Al passengers at Munich airport, killing one passenger and wounding 11 on 10 February 1970;
• On 6 September 1970, the PFLP (including Leila Khaled) hijacked four passenger aircraft from Pan Am, TWA and Swissair on flights to New York from Brussels, Frankfurt and Zürich, and failed in an attempt to hijack an El Al aircraft which landed safely in London after one hijacker was killed and the other overpowered; and on 9 September 1970, hijacked a BOAC flight from Bahrain to London via Beirut. The Pan Am flight was diverted to Cairo; the TWA, Swissair and BOAC flights were diverted to Dawson's Field in Zarqa, Jordan. The TWA, Swissair and BOAC aircraft were subsequently blown up by the PFLP on 12 September, in front of the world media, after all passengers had been taken off the planes. The event is significant, as it was cited as a reason for the Black September clashes between Palestinian and Jordanian forces.
• On 30 May 1972, 28 passengers were gunned down at Ben Gurion International Airport by members of the Japanese Red Army in collaboration with the PFLP's Waddie Haddad in what became known as the Lod Airport massacre. Haddad was ordered to stop planning operations, and ordered the attack without the PFLP's knowledge.
• On 13 October 1977, the PFLP hijacked Lufthansa flight LH181, a Boeing 737 flying from Palma de Mallorca to Frankfurt. After various stopovers the pilot was killed. The remaining passengers and crew were eventually rescued by German counter-terrorism special forces see Mogadishu hijacking.
• On 12 April 1984 a bus from Tel Aviv was hijacked. Bassam Abu Sharif in Damascus issued a statement in the name of the PFLP claiming responsibility.

The PFLP's Abu Ali Mustapha Brigades has carried out attacks on both civilians and military targets during the Al-Aqsa Intifada. Some of these attacks are:

• The killing of Meir Lixenberg, councillor and head of security in four settlements, who was shot while travelling in his car in the West Bank on 27 August 2001. PFLP claimed that this was a retaliation for the killing of Abu Ali Mustafa.
• The 21 October 2001 assassination of Israeli Minister for Tourism Rehavam Zeevi by Hamdi Quran, the only Israeli politician to have been assassinated in the Second Intifada.
• A suicide bombing in a pizzeria in Karnei Shomron, on the West Bank on 16 February 2002, killing three Israeli teenagers.
• A suicide bombing in Ariel on 7 March 2002, which left wounded but no fatalities.
• A suicide bombing in a Netanya market in Israel, on 19 May 2002, killing three Israelis. This attack was also claimed by Hamas, but the Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades have identified the perpetrator on their website as one of their members
• A suicide bombing in the bus station at Geha Junction in Petah Tikva on 25 December 2003 which killed 4 Israelis.
• A suicide bombing in the Jordan Rift Valley on 22 May 2004, which left no fatalities.
• A suicide bombing in the Carmel Market in Tel Aviv on 1 November 2004, which killed 3 Israeli civilians.

Plane hijackers and suicide bombers of civilians.

Nice people eh?

These people add nothing positive or good for Israelis or Arabs or anyone else caught up in their midst. They bring only anger, misery, grief and hatred.

Last edited by Tequila on 30 Oct 2013, 5:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

If a journalist doesn't give a damn about 10,000 people executed in China annualy or the Syrian civil war, but constantly cherry picks bad stuff in Israel, it's either because Israel is a free-market success story or because "the jews did it". For the last five pages on PPR, you've made several threads about Israel, but none about Iran, Syria, Saudi-Arabia, Somalia or Yemen. Why is that?