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babybird
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01 Jan 2014, 4:38 pm

Yes. That's what it is. I didn't know that it was meditating. I just thought I was clearing my thoughts.

It happens to me every Saturday for about 5 hours and then a good long walk in the countryside to look at the trees. :lol:

Sometimes everything looks golden. It is really nice.

Thanks Tallyman :D


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aghogday
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01 Jan 2014, 5:00 pm

TallyMan wrote:
ModusPonens wrote:
The ringing is a very common experience. IIRC it's because of blood pumping in the auditory system's arterias/veins.


That is quite likely. During a meditative state one is more aware of internal (bodily and mental) phenomenon and also external sensory input. I'll add the following which seems relevant here that I edited from my post in the spiritual experiences thread:

I practice Shikantaza Zen meditation. Unlike concentration based forms of meditation, shikantaza is more of an opening up of awareness rather than a narrowing down of it. The mind is usually full of noise from passing thoughts and sensations and they take our full attention. However, with practice, the noise of the mind can be stilled and you become aware of what remains of the thoughts arising and passing through your consciousness then departing. It is a bit like sitting next to a fast moving motorway / autoroute where cars are whizzing past so fast you don't really notice the individual vehicles and there is a constant roaring sound of vehicles. When the thoughts (mental noise) in the mind subside, it is like being on a deserted road and you clearly see an individual vehicle emerge in the distance, go past you slowly and disappear into the distance again. You can see much more detail. You can also hear any background sounds like birds singing.

In a deep meditative state some of the activity which is normally in the realms of the subconscious falls under the gaze of consciousness. It was always there in the background but people are generally unaware of it because their attention is entirely taken by conscious thoughts and a deluge of sensory information coming from our surroundings, jobs, TV, telephone and so on. In this deeper state of meditation you can become aware of the birth of each thought and where it came from (instincts, prejudices, lust) and so on. You can see the thought arise pre-language then see it being converted into verbal (word) form - if you speak more than one language you can see the thought being clothed in words of one or the other language.

Going deeper still into meditation you become aware that the sense of "I" or "me" is also a mental construct. There is no "I" or "me" witnessing these thoughts. The sense of self arises and passes just like any other mental construct. At this level of meditation "you" are essentially a witness of mental phenomenon going on in your brain. You are extremely alert - wide awake and sharper than you are during the normal waking state. Sensory information is more intense too - colours are deeper, sounds are more audible. You notice things that usually escape your attention... a tiny insect, barely visible, climbing a tiny blade of grass; a gentle breeze blows a dead leaf off a tree and you watch it descend.

At this depth of meditation you are aware that your most fundamental nature is that of consciousness. It isn't that you have consciousness so much as consciousness illuminates "you". Expressing this another way... there is no sense of individuality, the passing sensations of "I" or "me" appear within consciousness and are gone again - they are no more my real "self" than any other passing thought or emotion. My whole personality is a series of conditioned mental input / output responses - they are not "me"; but then "me" isn't me either. I am consciousness itself.

There is nothing supernatural or paranormal about any of this. This depth of awareness is available to everyone, in fact it is there all the time, but our attention is always distracted with the surface noise of the mind. Many of the things I've discovered about the functioning about my mind/brain also correspond with discoveries during the advances in neuroscience. The beauty of shikantaza meditation is that it is simply opening up to what is there. It is not about creating hallucinations or fancy imaginings, it is about shifting the attention from the usual clamour going on in the brain to the more subtle and deeper nature or our existence. An analogy is sometimes given that most people spend their time bouncing up and down on the surface waves of the ocean and they are oblivious to its profound depth and the immense beauty below the surface.


And this is precisely what THE REAL HISTORICAL DUDE CALLED Jesus was talking about in much lesS ELOQUENT terms than this...when he basically said The Kingdom of Heaven is NOW..

Not a fairy tale..nor anything supernatural..just something available for free for those who could transcend the illusions of culture...

Dam..patriarchs..and religion really screwed that up...

But anyway like you say it is available to anyone...

And my cat with his yoga pose basking in the sun..never got this virus of complex language and collective intelligence..to drive him to some foolish illusion of literal hell.....

Only humans are 'intelligent' enough to do that....

But on a serious note this is what i like about my catholic church...

It is mostly a mindless structure of routine..that does foster the ability to transcend the illusion of mind....

Until the friggin homily..and like last week some idiot starts talking about how homosexuals are not suitable to raise kids and all of that...

But when you have people like my priest who understands who the real historical Jesus is..as he is a scholar too..It's not hard to nip that in the bud..like he did last week..when his sheep start veering into 'hell'...

The deacon dude that did the homily..that is....

What i like most to do is a mix of meditation..yoga..dance..walking in reverse..tai chi..and yes belly dance2..with whatever music suits my mood...

And no i don't take dam lessons and i ain't never gonna do that...

I Just Do It..

What feels good..and natural....

And yes it is simply bliss..

God or whatever the f**k one wants to call it...


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aghogday
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01 Jan 2014, 5:11 pm

babybird wrote:
^^That reminds me of when I'm in a busy nightclub and I'm on the dance floor.

I always do the same thing. I stand there right in the middle, with everything buzzing around me, I close my eyes and I listen for the slowest beat in the music, until that's all I can hear.

Everything slows down, It is a really nice feeling.

I know that the place is full but it just feels like me.

I don't know if that is like meditating. But it is peaceful.


Dam you are lucky..my wife don't like to dance..

So i have to DO it in SuperWalmart...

Or the Mall..

But it's great..same feeling..no different really when I really did dance for 10 years at Night
Clubs in my 'formative' years...

And those white ear buds on the iPhone5 have better dam sound than the disco did...

Up close and personal too.. to drown out all the stress of those humans walking around stores....


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Last edited by aghogday on 01 Jan 2014, 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

babybird
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01 Jan 2014, 5:14 pm

I don't know whether what I do would pass as dancing. :wink:


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techstepgenr8tion
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01 Jan 2014, 5:20 pm

TallyMan wrote:
At this depth of meditation you are aware that your most fundamental nature is that of consciousness. It isn't that you have consciousness so much as consciousness illuminates "you". Expressing this another way... there is no sense of individuality, the passing sensations of "I" or "me" appear within consciousness and are gone again - they are no more my real "self" than any other passing thought or emotion. My whole personality is a series of conditioned mental input / output responses - they are not "me"; but then "me" isn't me either. I am consciousness itself.

I've often heard that referred to as the 'oceanic feeling' where one senses that their awareness spreads out over everything they see and it's a bit like all lines separating self from what we'd generally class exterior, at least perceptually speaking, are felt to disappear. It sounds like an incredibly neat experience regardless of how it works. So many say when they experience it as well, a bit like you mentioned with subconscious processes, it feels like something that's always there but usually pushed under the radar in favor of other experiences and almost done so preconsciously.



aghogday
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01 Jan 2014, 5:22 pm

babybird wrote:
I don't know whether what I do would pass as dancing. :wink:


Well i used to be really repressed and all of that and honestly back in those days i probably looked like i was dancing with a stick up my butt..

Butt..things change..and while this was done on Halloween Night for amusement..

This is pretty much what i look like in the stores..minus the Frankenstein mask although i do have a very large head..and fairly big teeth...

I can really go fast now..and have seriously been compared to the dancing with the stars folks..and actually receive applause in the mall...

Haha..i ain't got no inhibitions anymore..and no.. i don't do anything illegal...

But oh my GOD it's fun to really be free...

No approximation for me baby bird....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcUIkQxp-B0[/youtube]

Oh..did i tell you i sing too..

There's a couple just for fun on my youtube feed...

And after the first time i did the New York New York.. thing with never singing that song or knowing the words...

I got the accolade of American Idol..haha..

But again..if I could not have transcending the prison of my inhibitions..i could have never done it...

Thank GOD for freedom....

And yes..all forms of movement and meditation too....

Anything to transcend the illusion of cultural hell...


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01 Jan 2014, 5:27 pm

^^Great dancing, it made me laugh.

I think a lot of people are surprised at my public displays sometimes because I am generally so quiet :lol:


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aghogday
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01 Jan 2014, 5:34 pm

babybird wrote:
^^Great dancing, it made me laugh.

I think a lot of people are surprised at my public displays sometimes because I am generally so quiet :lol:


Well..seriously i did that for 23 miles on a busy pre-Christmas day at our metro area mall..

Measured with my Nike Plus GPS watch...

And oh my god..i do make people laugh..

As i look more like a law enforcement dude...or some guy in the military...

Than a 'Crazy Latin Dancing Solo in wherever that place Billy Joel talked about in the Rosalinda's Eyes song...

God i loved that song..reminds me of my first love..

Oh s**t it think i'm gonna have to cry now..

Or better yet.. laugh with ya....

Yeah the girl was cuban too..but i've got this habit of digressing3..2

So to make a longer story shorter..here is the video..

I seriously forgot all about that song until now...and oh my GOD i'm a crazy solo latin dancer now....

My Grandmother was (cajun) so a little bit i guess...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB-tkHD4uXU[/youtube]


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01 Jan 2014, 5:36 pm

while it's nice to talk about useless exotic unrelateable descriptions of indescrablable experiences, i'm going to try to keep this down to earth. i'm sure there are many things that have been called the key to good meditation. the one that stands out for me is the necessity of inquiring into your direct, immediate experience. it's not about looking for that hidden backdoor to "the subconscious realm" or "piercing the veil." let all the nonsense you're accustomed to attending to subside, and you may find that what you were looking for was always already there, only you were standing in the way.

i never gave much thought to spirituality before i started meditating in 2009. i'm not a 'believer'. to me mindfulness was just a possible treatment for depression. i picked up some books by thich nhat hanh, extracted a methodology and practiced diligently from the moment i awoke until the moment i fell asleep. after practicing continuously in this manner for three months, something interesting happened, as inadequately described in another thread:

Quote:
i lie on the floor of my room, attention is drawn towards my pulse, first in the neck, then in the heart. soon i feel the pulse in every corner of my body. then there is only this pulsing and nothing else. the pulse becomes a smooth energy field. i am aware that i no longer feel my heart beating. a faint whisper of a thought 'death'? i accept, i give up. any sense of physicality drops away. aspects of experience predominate and fall away in layers. a state stabilizes. a borderless, centerless, pure clear light. everything is just this light. i am not 'somewhere' in relation to the experience. there are no thoughts, and no tactile phenomena. at some point i open my eyes and notice something remarkable. i'm in my bedroom. i mean the bedroom is there, but i'm not there. i'm not anywhere. everything is vivid and immediate, perfect. time stands still. my visual field has no location. my mind is silent. i have no experience of a body, except for the feeling of my skin gracing the air. a hand makes an appearance in the visual field to reach out and touch something, but it's not 'my hand' it's just colors and shapes and shades. there is no sense of an observer, no subject-object split. i know by their absence what phenomena comprise the feeling of being located in experience.


after years of near-constant depression, suddenly i felt perfect. absent were tensions i had never before recognized as tensions. the sense of a place from which experience is experienced was clearly not an actual place from which experience is experienced. no witness. eventually, the sensations that seemed to imply a witness returned; this seemed to me like a terrible mistake. i thought that i was somehow supposed to make them go away and feel perfect all the time, which would be nice. so for the next year or so i was routinely frustrated in meditation because, while i no longer doubted that "enlightenment" was a realistic possibility, i still had no sense of whether the practice i had undertaken would lead in that direction.

i picked up a book, Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha, by daniel ingram in april of [whenever]. i would recommend this book to anyone who is serious about awakening, whether buddhist or not (it's downloadable for free, so go read it now). the book is nondogmatic and straight to the point. after reading that and Living Dharma by jack kornfield, i had a pretty good sense of how to meditate effectively. i started practicing 5 hours a day, then 10 hours a day, and resolved to go on in this manner until i attained a "path" [as defined in MTCTB]. after about three months, that happened. i was lying down, my senses were strobing and womp-womping and suddenly the whole of experience was slurped into a momentary discontinuity. when i came back online, my heart region was vibrating nicely, like a silent bucket of marbles swirling in my chest, whatever that means.

after that, my practice became more directly about inquiring into specific sensations that seemed to imply a sense of self, a doer, a feeler, a thinker, as opposed to indiscriminate direct analysis of all phenomena [in terms of the the three characteristics], which is also good and useful. the problem was that, no matter what i saw, i would ultimately defer to thought as though "the final answer" would have to be determined in the form of a sentence. eventually i was prompted by another meditator to question that, i.e., "can a thought think?" deferring always to thought is another way of treating an experience as an experiencer. it will seem irrelevant or nonsensical to someone who still assumes that thought entails a thinker. oh well. thought has no direct access to experience, nor does anything else for that matter. you can't even think about something precisely while it's happening (the mediating subject which both thinks and experiences is only a useful abstraction) except by construing identity and persistence of phenomena (the construing of which is not, and does not disclose, ACTUAL identity or persistence).



Last edited by wornlight on 01 Jan 2014, 5:59 pm, edited 4 times in total.

babybird
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01 Jan 2014, 5:50 pm

I've come to a decision anyways. I think I'll stick to just clearing my thoughts, it works for me fine.

I don't really think I need to go all religious about it.

I like to keep things simple me :D


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01 Jan 2014, 7:08 pm

wornlight wrote:
while it's nice to talk about useless exotic unrelateable descriptions of indescrablable experiences, i'm going to try to keep this down to earth. i'm sure there are many things that have been called the key to good meditation. the one that stands out for me is the necessity of inquiring into your direct, immediate experience. it's not about looking for that hidden backdoor to "the subconscious realm" or "piercing the veil." let all the nonsense you're accustomed to attending to subside, and you may find that what you were looking for was always already there, only you were standing in the way.

i never gave much thought to spirituality before i started meditating in 2009. i'm not a 'believer'. to me mindfulness was just a possible treatment for depression. i picked up some books by thich nhat hanh, extracted a methodology and practiced diligently from the moment i awoke until the moment i fell asleep. after practicing continuously in this manner for three months, something interesting happened, as inadequately described in another thread:

Quote:
i lie on the floor of my room, attention is drawn towards my pulse, first in the neck, then in the heart. soon i feel the pulse in every corner of my body. then there is only this pulsing and nothing else. the pulse becomes a smooth energy field. i am aware that i no longer feel my heart beating. a faint whisper of a thought 'death'? i accept, i give up. any sense of physicality drops away. aspects of experience predominate and fall away in layers. a state stabilizes. a borderless, centerless, pure clear light. everything is just this light. i am not 'somewhere' in relation to the experience. there are no thoughts, and no tactile phenomena. at some point i open my eyes and notice something remarkable. i'm in my bedroom. i mean the bedroom is there, but i'm not there. i'm not anywhere. everything is vivid and immediate, perfect. time stands still. my visual field has no location. my mind is silent. i have no experience of a body, except for the feeling of my skin gracing the air. a hand makes an appearance in the visual field to reach out and touch something, but it's not 'my hand' it's just colors and shapes and shades. there is no sense of an observer, no subject-object split. i know by their absence what phenomena comprise the feeling of being located in experience.


after years of near-constant depression, suddenly i felt perfect. absent were tensions i had never before recognized as tensions. the sense of a place from which experience is experienced was clearly not an actual place from which experience is experienced. no witness. eventually, the sensations that seemed to imply a witness returned; this seemed to me like a terrible mistake. i thought that i was somehow supposed to make them go away and feel perfect all the time, which would be nice. so for the next year or so i was routinely frustrated in meditation because, while i no longer doubted that "enlightenment" was a realistic possibility, i still had no sense of whether the practice i had undertaken would lead in that direction.

i picked up a book, Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha, by daniel ingram in april of [whenever]. i would recommend this book to anyone who is serious about awakening, whether buddhist or not (it's downloadable for free, so go read it now). the book is nondogmatic and straight to the point. after reading that and Living Dharma by jack kornfield, i had a pretty good sense of how to meditate effectively. i started practicing 5 hours a day, then 10 hours a day, and resolved to go on in this manner until i attained a "path" [as defined in MTCTB]. after about three months, that happened. i was lying down, my senses were strobing and womp-womping and suddenly the whole of experience was slurped into a momentary discontinuity. when i came back online, my heart region was vibrating nicely, like a silent bucket of marbles swirling in my chest, whatever that means.

after that, my practice became more directly about inquiring into specific sensations that seemed to imply a sense of self, a doer, a feeler, a thinker, as opposed to indiscriminate direct analysis of all phenomena [in terms of the the three characteristics], which is also good and useful. the problem was that, no matter what i saw, i would ultimately defer to thought as though "the final answer" would have to be determined in the form of a sentence. eventually i was prompted by another meditator to question that, i.e., "can a thought think?" deferring always to thought is another way of treating an experience as an experiencer. it will seem irrelevant or nonsensical to someone who still assumes that thought entails a thinker. oh well. thought has no direct access to experience, nor does anything else for that matter. you can't even think about something precisely while it's happening (the mediating subject which both thinks and experiences is only a useful abstraction) except by construing identity and persistence of phenomena (the construing of which is not, and does not disclose, ACTUAL identity or persistence).


Who would have thougth that this topic would be like this? Jesus! Apart from Dharma Overground, I know of no buddhist forum where what was shared here would be shared.

Do you visit DO?



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01 Jan 2014, 7:34 pm

babybird wrote:
I've come to a decision anyways. I think I'll stick to just clearing my thoughts, it works for me fine.

I don't really think I need to go all religious about it.

I like to keep things simple me :D


THAT'S great and kOOl..

My Cat feels the same way about It...!


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techstepgenr8tion
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01 Jan 2014, 9:16 pm

ModusPonens wrote:
I'm in the border between access concentration an 1st jhana. The best teaching session I ever heard is recorded in the video bellow. It's the outline of the buddhist meditation path from a person with a lot, if not all the personal experience of it. I assure you that it is well worth the time spent listening to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdxFS-j5oD0

Thanks for the video. :)

I'm taking a listen to it right now, I'm about 15 minutes in. A lot of the parlance is somewhat new to me as my brushes with EMT have been significantly less than my WMT.



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01 Jan 2014, 10:06 pm

TallyMan wrote:
ModusPonens wrote:
The ringing is a very common experience. IIRC it's because of blood pumping in the auditory system's arterias/veins.


That is quite likely. During a meditative state one is more aware of internal (bodily and mental) phenomenon and also external sensory input. I'll add the following which seems relevant here that I edited from my post in the spiritual experiences thread:

I practice Shikantaza Zen meditation. Unlike concentration based forms of meditation, shikantaza is more of an opening up of awareness rather than a narrowing down of it. The mind is usually full of noise from passing thoughts and sensations and they take our full attention. However, with practice, the noise of the mind can be stilled and you become aware of what remains of the thoughts arising and passing through your consciousness then departing. It is a bit like sitting next to a fast moving motorway / autoroute where cars are whizzing past so fast you don't really notice the individual vehicles and there is a constant roaring sound of vehicles. When the thoughts (mental noise) in the mind subside, it is like being on a deserted road and you clearly see an individual vehicle emerge in the distance, go past you slowly and disappear into the distance again. You can see much more detail. You can also hear any background sounds like birds singing.

In a deep meditative state some of the activity which is normally in the realms of the subconscious falls under the gaze of consciousness. It was always there in the background but people are generally unaware of it because their attention is entirely taken by conscious thoughts and a deluge of sensory information coming from our surroundings, jobs, TV, telephone and so on. In this deeper state of meditation you can become aware of the birth of each thought and where it came from (instincts, prejudices, lust) and so on. You can see the thought arise pre-language then see it being converted into verbal (word) form - if you speak more than one language you can see the thought being clothed in words of one or the other language.

Going deeper still into meditation you become aware that the sense of "I" or "me" is also a mental construct. There is no "I" or "me" witnessing these thoughts. The sense of self arises and passes just like any other mental construct. At this level of meditation "you" are essentially a witness of mental phenomenon going on in your brain. You are extremely alert - wide awake and sharper than you are during the normal waking state. Sensory information is more intense too - colours are deeper, sounds are more audible. You notice things that usually escape your attention... a tiny insect, barely visible, climbing a tiny blade of grass; a gentle breeze blows a dead leaf off a tree and you watch it descend.

At this depth of meditation you are aware that your most fundamental nature is that of consciousness. It isn't that you have consciousness so much as consciousness illuminates "you". Expressing this another way... there is no sense of individuality, the passing sensations of "I" or "me" appear within consciousness and are gone again - they are no more my real "self" than any other passing thought or emotion. My whole personality is a series of conditioned mental input / output responses - they are not "me"; but then "me" isn't me either. I am consciousness itself.

There is nothing supernatural or paranormal about any of this. This depth of awareness is available to everyone, in fact it is there all the time, but our attention is always distracted with the surface noise of the mind. Many of the things I've discovered about the functioning about my mind/brain also correspond with discoveries during the advances in neuroscience. The beauty of shikantaza meditation is that it is simply opening up to what is there. It is not about creating hallucinations or fancy imaginings, it is about shifting the attention from the usual clamour going on in the brain to the more subtle and deeper nature or our existence. An analogy is sometimes given that most people spend their time bouncing up and down on the surface waves of the ocean and they are oblivious to its profound depth and the immense beauty below the surface.


^Fantastic thank you so much for sharing this


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02 Jan 2014, 6:10 am

aghogday wrote:
babybird wrote:
I've come to a decision anyways. I think I'll stick to just clearing my thoughts, it works for me fine.

I don't really think I need to go all religious about it.

I like to keep things simple me :D


THAT'S great and kOOl..

My Cat feels the same way about It...!

:lol: very funny. Meow! :cat:


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02 Jan 2014, 7:37 am

I'm interested in this now, and I don't want to be, but there you go.

I was lying in bed last night with my window open, because I was really warm.
I decided to concentrate on the sound that was the furthest away.

I could here a dog barking first, then a bit further I could here traffic on the main road. Then, right in the distance a siren.

I concentrated on it and looked right into the darkness of my mind,
where At the furthest point I saw the wings of a raven or some kind of black bird unfold. The distance of it seemed to be at the same distance as the sirens I could hear.

Sound and vision.


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