Sex education

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I mean one man and one woman for life, exclusively.

I'm not for ignorance, but here in the U.S., most mainstream sex-ed classes that include homosexuality only present one option: equalizing it with traditional marriage. Teachers have been known to lose their jobs for even suggesting an inherent difference exists between the two, let alone declaring marriage the better choice.

I live in Texas, and the nation's largest "gay Christian" church is located here in Dallas - its called the Cathedral of Hope.

From my (limited) experience, there wouldn't be too much overlap between "opted out of sex education" and "got pregnant". There are probably more exceptions at religious schools, where (as I understand it) the teaching is worse.

We've made a lot of progress in this area though. When I was 11, it was something older teens moaned about, they were just being taught mechanics repetitively. I was taught aspects of sex-ed three times in secondary school, once in Year 9 (briefly, as part of a session that focused on alcohol), once in Year 10 (the most in depth, with more focus on relationships than on safe sex) and once in Year 12 (focus on how to use a condom safely, which was revision from Y10 but necessary).

Sure enough, our teenage pregnancy rates are dropping (link)


Hooray for holistic sexual education! \o/

http://listtoptens.com/top-10-countries ... egnancies/

United States is number one and we have plenty of sex education in the schools and parents will tell their kids how pregnancy happens, too, yet United States is number one for teenage pregnancies.

The number one reason, access to birth control and using it. It's not that they don't know how, it's because they either don't have it or don't want to be bothered. Some girls even desire getting pregnant.
Most American teenagers know more about sex than their parents so you cannot blame ignorance about sex. You have put it all in cultural context.

Another realization, some mothers do not care if their young daughters get pregnant. Some even encourage it. That's been a problem in my state, one of the states that has a higher than average rate.

The United States is number one in the developed world when it comes to teenage pregnancy because of abstinence only sex education (which is almost an oxymoron).

It is well established that there is a positive correlation between the degree of abstinence only sex education and the prevalence of teen pregnancy among US states.



Source: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ad ... 0024658#s2

The above graphs illustrate the different levels of teenage pregnancy rates in US states grouped in 4 categories (0-3) according to the degree of focus on abstinence in sex education:

1. No provision.
2. Abstinence covered. (AKA: Comprehensive sex education)
3. Abstinence promoted.
4. Abstinence stressed.

They also illustrate that there is a very distinctive pattern even when controlling for education, income and ethnic diversity.

Summary: Abstinence only sex education isn't just worse than comprehensive sex education when it comes to preventing teen pregnancies... It is worse than sex education that does not include abstinence *at all*.

I know for a fact when I went to school there was no such thing as abstinence only education and my state had one of the highest rates of unmarried teenage girls pregnant with their first child and we were taught about sex since the fifth grade and in several classes since then where we discussed birth control in depth, including condoms and IUDs. Still pregnant girls. It's more about the culture. Where I live, there is a lot of teenage partying and parents are very lax about issues like teen sex. Some do not care if their daughters get pregnant early. This plays into the problem.

Plus most girls did not have any birth control pills and most did not want to spend their money on condoms. In fact, many males hate wearing them and refuse.

I know I live in the heart of the Bible Belt but our state has so many social ills we were hardly naive kids and we learned about facts of life quite early, especially in the cities. You would be surprised.

Abstinence-only education doesn't work and it often contains misinformation. Studies show that that comprehensive sex education is more effective.

What I think is a great idea is once girls become sexually active, they are provided access to the birth control shot. It's like an immunization against pregnancy. It lasts about three months. It's very effective and no one has to worry about pills. She doesn't have to try to get a guy to wear a condom which many don't like the feel of. IMO this is the most effective way of handling it. I personally do not like the idea of comprehensive, mandatory sex education in schools not from a moral standpoint, more because I don't feel like discussing it with people I do not like very much or who repulse me to my core. People ignore this component. Not everyone feels like discussing it with classmates they don't like or strange teachers. No one has mentioned this angle believe me it's there and I bet I am not the only one who feels this way. If I am going to discuss sex, it's going to be with someone I like, not someone I am forced into discussion at a school. It's just the way I feel. Have respect for people's feelings instead of just blindly reciting "this study says it's effective." I really don't give a crap.

Now I am all for basic education of course, about anatomy and forms of birth control but all this elaborate discussion about sexual fulfillment and masturbation. Do people really need to be taught this? I know I don't feel sexually fulfilled going into detail with everyone on earth just about. And people need to be aware, especially women, they are not obligated to participate. They do not have to have a sex life if they do not want it. There is nothing wrong with anyone who doesn't want a sex life. They are perfectly normal people. There's no medical problem. You either want one or you don't and if you are happy without one you are probably a bit more psychologically healthy than people who are mixed up in these relationships they don't like or want, just because they feel pressured, like it's something they must be doing or they aren't right in the head. I am all for choice and comfort level and some of us do not want ours breached. This idea we have to go to school to discover we are entitled to sexual fulfillment is ridiculous. You have a right to your comfort level before anything else and this should always be respected. If I don't feel comfortable, I am not going to bare my body or my soul. The sex act should be between two people who know each other well and like each other, at the least, and they should be doing the educating with each other. Leave the public out of it, tyvm. Just my opinion.

I have two significant problems with the circumstances set out in the original post.

1) Why is the Roman Catholic Church meddling in civil politics? I have absolutely no objection if the Church teaches its followers to teach their children certain things about sex and sexuality. It's not my place to comment on what goes on in an priest-penitent relationship. The Church is free to teach that sex outside of marriage is sinful and to preach its narrow view of what constitutes marriage.

However, the Church is overstepping its social role when it enjoins its followers to "stop" a policy enunciated by a democratically elected government whose policies are subject to Parliamentary oversight. Even if the Church did not directly distribute the pamphlet, it permitted its distribution, and has tacitly given its endorsement to the contents.

2). The pamphlet is based on a lie. A bald-faced, deliberate lie. The author of that pamphlet knew, or ought properly to have known that the statement about teen pregnancy was false, and the author proceeded, nonetheless, to set out to mislead people.

How can you possibly claim a moral basis for your political position, when you promote that position with deceit?

See, I completely disagree on this. The entire reason we need sex education is schools is because parents feel too ashamed or awkward to talk to their kids about sex. And the whole "educating each other" IS WHAT CAUSES TEEN PREGNANCY! That is literally what it is, 2 people blindly derping around without actually having a sufficient knowledge base or understanding the options/ consequences.

As far as the immunizations thing... if you can develop this wonderful wonder-drug and convince people that having a needle in their arm is, in fact, the less invasive birth control option than be my guest. Most birth control works by controlled doses of hormones, if you were to just stick three months of hormones in someone they would most likely die. Pregnancy is not an infection that you can trick your immune system into defending your body against.

This is why you provide sexually active girls with the birth control shot. Problem solved. I honestly believe explicit, elaborate "sex education" that goes beyond basic facts, like anatomy, "men and women engage in the sexual act, sperm journeys from the vagina to the uterus, eggs are released from the Fallopian tubes and if sperm and egg happen to meet bam the zygote is the result," where people are pressured and coerced into discussion, can be a form of abuse. YES basic sex education is something everyone should know about in grade school. This way they know how they can reproduce with facts, not myths. HOWEVER if you go further than these basic facts and info about birth control options, it becomes exploitation and abuse and I strongly disagree with it. You cross a fine line that shouldn't be. Respect is the most important thing of all and should be taught by example first and foremost at all times. If you are not teaching them this, you are adding to problems, not solving them imo.

Some things are no body else's business.

And, I don't believe everyone has a "right" to sexual fulfillment. If you happen to find the right person you might stand the chance of experiencing this but it is not your God given right. Some things you just gotta deal with.
The one thing we all do have a God given right to in my opinion is respect.

I grew up with a lot of these issues first hand, right in front of me, not just graphs and charts on papers. Several girls that went to my elementary school went on to get pregnant and have kids while they were still in high school. In fact there was this group of girls, a clique, at my school, every single one of them in this clique got pregnant in high school and they became friends in elementary. We all had access to education, they all knew where babies come from. What would have kept them from getting pregnant would have been the birth control shot but that's it. All the education in the world would not stop them. They just didn't care if it happened and they wanted a husband and a baby. It's time to look at some of the real reasons teen pregnancy occurs.

Last edited by ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo on 14 Jan 2014, 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Would anybody like to argue that these classes should be compulsory? Educating your child on matters of sex should be the parent's responsibility, if a parent is so inclined to opt out of these classes for their child then that is their right. Teachers shouldn't undermine the wishes of the parent.

With me it's not a matter of opting out, more a matter of how it's discussed. I think it's a good idea for every child to learn exactly how people and all living things reproduce. Every single one of them will benefit from knowing how they reproduce but imo it's the culture they live in that determines their attitude toward issues like teen pregnancy. not just knowing. So the in depth discussions are not going to help them not get pregnant.

Yes, I would argue that. I am a firm believer that the needs of children should outweigh the desires of their parents.

And the absolutely dismal state of sex education in the US (comparable to that of third world countries) amply demonstrates that a lot parents are incapable of shouldering the responsibility of providing useful sex education.

I'm sorry, Viper, but this isn't true for every state in the US. In my town, sex education is provided in elementary school. Parents get a consent form and they sign it to give permission for their child to attend the class. When I was in school, the majority of parents let their children attend the class.

What is comparable to third world countries is not the education itself, but the access to birth control. Even parents who allow their teen to engage in sex with her boyfriend will turn around and say they don't want their daughter on the pill because of health concerns. They have excuses, you see.


http://www.hhs.gov/ash/oah/adolescent-h ... rends.html

If parents - for *health* concerns - were to prevent their sexually active daughter from protecting herself from the obvious health risks of teen pregnancy, wouldn't that be a *textbook* case of dismal sex education?

I never said that the only ones who needed to be educated were the children...

One thing that would help is parents communicating the message teenage pregnancy is unacceptable in the family from an early age. If you tell your kid many times they cannot be fathers and mothers while teenagers, it will make a huge impact on their way of thinking. They will do their best to not get in such situations. Sometimes, a woman who experienced parenthood while still a teen will do everything to impart the message it is a terrible situation to find oneself in. Such was the case with close family friends I grew up with. Pregnant teens do not come from such families. Most of them are from families where there is no father and a mother that had a baby as a teenager and her attitude toward teen pregnancy is lax or sees no problem with it.
The attitude of the parents has a lot to do with how their kid will be. If a kid has strong self esteem, they can make better choices. When the kid feels cared for and loved by the parents, has a good relationship with them, they function better as productive members of society and they can make better choices about their future. This is much more complicated that requires more than the education band-aide. It's rooted in many families.