Hey! I thought racism in America was a thing of the past!
19 Jan 2014, 5:27 pm
Jacoby wrote:
TheGoggles wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
The job market sucks for everybody, at least it does for me personally. Please don't tell me I'm "privileged" because of my race. I'm not sure Bianca White is way more identifiably white than Yolanda Spivey tho, the surveys on monster supposedly don't even go to the employer AFAIK altho I've been felt unease at the question as well. The way that blog post reads reminds of that Eddie Murphy skit from SNL in the 80s "White Like Me".
Hey guys, I know that I'm privileged and provide examples about how I'm privileged, but please don't tell me that I am! Acknowledging my privilege makes it harder for me to be a victim!
Hey, I'm a condescending dbag with nothing to contribute.
Probably the biggest misconception a lot of minorities have about white people is that they're all rich and gifted opportunities when the reality is that there are more poor whites than there any other demographic but I guess they actually deserve to be poor. This privilege theory is just absolute horses**t, let's replace white privilege with Jew privilege and they'd call it racist.
It appears that you're knocking down strawmen. When you want to deal with the actual subject, then please let us know.
_________________
"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin
19 Jan 2014, 5:31 pm
beneficii wrote:
This black woman pretended to be white, with the exact same background, and her white alter ego got way more job offers than her true black self:
http://selfuni.wordpress.com/2013/12/29 ... skyrocket/
http://selfuni.wordpress.com/2013/12/29 ... skyrocket/
The U.S is racist to the bone. However we pretty well have put an end to lynching in the U.S.
ruveyn
19 Jan 2014, 5:33 pm
ruveyn wrote:
beneficii wrote:
This black woman pretended to be white, with the exact same background, and her white alter ego got way more job offers than her true black self:
http://selfuni.wordpress.com/2013/12/29 ... skyrocket/
http://selfuni.wordpress.com/2013/12/29 ... skyrocket/
The U.S is racist to the bone. However we pretty well have put an end to lynching in the U.S.
ruveyn
Yup. That's a good thing. We now, however, have a much more difficult challenge: Ending this kind of insidious racism that gives its perpetrators plausible deniability.
_________________
"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
19 Jan 2014, 5:36 pm
LoveNotHate wrote:
Racism: poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race. ( http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism )
No it is not in the past.
The U.S. government, local municipalities, and public universities all promote racism.
Barack Obama promotes racism. ( http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... n-programs )
Minorities promoting racial preference laws are racist.
Why wouldn't white (probably Asians too since they don't get counted as a minority for some reason) people respond to these racists will similar racism ?
No it is not in the past.
The U.S. government, local municipalities, and public universities all promote racism.
Barack Obama promotes racism. ( http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... n-programs )
Minorities promoting racial preference laws are racist.
Why wouldn't white (probably Asians too since they don't get counted as a minority for some reason) people respond to these racists will similar racism ?
Really? Affirmative Action is responsible for racism? Then how do you explain the existence of racism prior to Affirmative Action? And seriously, even with such programs as Affirmative Action, the great majority of jobs and placements in college still go to whites. I can seriously say, I have never been discriminated against because I was white, and I honestly don't believe whites in general have lost out because of preferential treatment for minorities - save in the fevered imaginings of racists.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
19 Jan 2014, 5:53 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Racism: poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race. ( http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism )
No it is not in the past.
The U.S. government, local municipalities, and public universities all promote racism.
Barack Obama promotes racism. ( http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... n-programs )
Minorities promoting racial preference laws are racist.
Why wouldn't white (probably Asians too since they don't get counted as a minority for some reason) people respond to these racists will similar racism ?
No it is not in the past.
The U.S. government, local municipalities, and public universities all promote racism.
Barack Obama promotes racism. ( http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... n-programs )
Minorities promoting racial preference laws are racist.
Why wouldn't white (probably Asians too since they don't get counted as a minority for some reason) people respond to these racists will similar racism ?
Really? Affirmative Action is responsible for racism? Then how do you explain the existence of racism prior to Affirmative Action? And seriously, even with such programs as Affirmative Action, the great majority of jobs and placements in college still go to whites. I can seriously say, I have never been discriminated against because I was white, and I honestly don't believe whites in general have lost out because of preferential treatment for minorities - save in the fevered imaginings of racists.
I never said "affirmative action" is responsible for racism. I said by definition it is racism.
I know the racists will say that "racism against white people and Asian people and possibly including white Hispanic people" is "good racism", and have justifications like you mention of "hey, I don't believe these people lost out of anything". However, it would be easy for me to find many articles of white people being racially discriminated against, and sueing the racist entity.
Here is a random one .. out of hundreds ..
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/polit ... irmative-a
Last edited by LoveNotHate on 19 Jan 2014, 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
19 Jan 2014, 5:57 pm
Jacoby wrote:
is that there are more poor whites than there any other demographic but I guess they actually deserve to be poor.
Like someone said earlier, this is a strawman. I never anything resembling that.
Not seeing privilege requires you to specifically go out of your way to ignore it.
19 Jan 2014, 6:01 pm
LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Racism: poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race. ( http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism )
No it is not in the past.
The U.S. government, local municipalities, and public universities all promote racism.
Barack Obama promotes racism. ( http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... n-programs )
Minorities promoting racial preference laws are racist.
Why wouldn't white (probably Asians too since they don't get counted as a minority for some reason) people respond to these racists will similar racism ?
No it is not in the past.
The U.S. government, local municipalities, and public universities all promote racism.
Barack Obama promotes racism. ( http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... n-programs )
Minorities promoting racial preference laws are racist.
Why wouldn't white (probably Asians too since they don't get counted as a minority for some reason) people respond to these racists will similar racism ?
Really? Affirmative Action is responsible for racism? Then how do you explain the existence of racism prior to Affirmative Action? And seriously, even with such programs as Affirmative Action, the great majority of jobs and placements in college still go to whites. I can seriously say, I have never been discriminated against because I was white, and I honestly don't believe whites in general have lost out because of preferential treatment for minorities - save in the fevered imaginings of racists.
I never said "affirmative action" is responsible for racism. I said by definition it is racism.
I know the racists will say that "racism against white people and Asian people and possibly including white Hispanic people" is "good racism", and have justifications like you mention of "hey, I don't believe these people lost out of anything". However, it would be easy for me to find many articles of white people being racial discriminated against, and sueing the racist entity.
Affirmative Action is designed to work against the deeply engrained racist attitudes that used to be written into our very laws.
Imagine a poster that's been curled up into a tube for years and years. When you try to lay it flat, it won't become a tube again, but the edges will curl into one another. Affirmative Action is trying to make that poster flat by acting against the forces that cause it to curl.
19 Jan 2014, 6:06 pm
beneficii wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
TheGoggles wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
The job market sucks for everybody, at least it does for me personally. Please don't tell me I'm "privileged" because of my race. I'm not sure Bianca White is way more identifiably white than Yolanda Spivey tho, the surveys on monster supposedly don't even go to the employer AFAIK altho I've been felt unease at the question as well. The way that blog post reads reminds of that Eddie Murphy skit from SNL in the 80s "White Like Me".
Hey guys, I know that I'm privileged and provide examples about how I'm privileged, but please don't tell me that I am! Acknowledging my privilege makes it harder for me to be a victim!
Hey, I'm a condescending dbag with nothing to contribute.
Probably the biggest misconception a lot of minorities have about white people is that they're all rich and gifted opportunities when the reality is that there are more poor whites than there any other demographic but I guess they actually deserve to be poor. This privilege theory is just absolute horses**t, let's replace white privilege with Jew privilege and they'd call it racist.
It appears that you're knocking down strawmen. When you want to deal with the actual subject, then please let us know.
What subject?
Supposedly white privilege and institutional racism are the cause of the downtrodden status of minorities in this country but that ignores the fact that there are more white people in poverty than there are anyone else. So who do these poor whites oppressors get to point their finger at if they already so privileged by their race?
As I mentioned, I don't hear many people who decry white privilege talk much about Jewish privilege despite being the wealthiest, most politically represented, most nepotistic group in America. Why is that? Louis Farrakhan is the only one I can think of and he isn't someone most of you guys would be comfortable supporting.
19 Jan 2014, 6:09 pm
beneficii wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Racism: poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race. ( http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism )
No it is not in the past.
The U.S. government, local municipalities, and public universities all promote racism.
Barack Obama promotes racism. ( http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... n-programs )
Minorities promoting racial preference laws are racist.
Why wouldn't white (probably Asians too since they don't get counted as a minority for some reason) people respond to these racists will similar racism ?
No it is not in the past.
The U.S. government, local municipalities, and public universities all promote racism.
Barack Obama promotes racism. ( http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... n-programs )
Minorities promoting racial preference laws are racist.
Why wouldn't white (probably Asians too since they don't get counted as a minority for some reason) people respond to these racists will similar racism ?
Considering the massive disadvantages and still existing covert racism that many people of color face to begin with, what's wrong with giving them a handicap (a method to level the game, so to speak) like affirmative action? Saying affirmative action is discrimination against whites misses the whole historical and present context.
Your original question asked, "Hey! I thought racism in America was a thing of the past!" and I responded to that question. Now you qualify the question, with "in view of the historical and present context", however, that qualification is irrelevant to the definition of a word.
Is hiring a White , Asian, Hispanic-White person over black people racism ? That is what that the original article seemed to present? Now isn't also racism to hire a black people person over a white, Asian, White-Hispanic person ?
Further, it makes sense to me that discriminated White, Asian, Hispanic-White people would practice discrimination precisely because they are being discriminated against by the other racial types. I believe strongly that by means of unintended consequences - affirmative actions causes people to be racists.
19 Jan 2014, 6:14 pm
Jacoby wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
TheGoggles wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
The job market sucks for everybody, at least it does for me personally. Please don't tell me I'm "privileged" because of my race. I'm not sure Bianca White is way more identifiably white than Yolanda Spivey tho, the surveys on monster supposedly don't even go to the employer AFAIK altho I've been felt unease at the question as well. The way that blog post reads reminds of that Eddie Murphy skit from SNL in the 80s "White Like Me".
Hey guys, I know that I'm privileged and provide examples about how I'm privileged, but please don't tell me that I am! Acknowledging my privilege makes it harder for me to be a victim!
Hey, I'm a condescending dbag with nothing to contribute.
Probably the biggest misconception a lot of minorities have about white people is that they're all rich and gifted opportunities when the reality is that there are more poor whites than there any other demographic but I guess they actually deserve to be poor. This privilege theory is just absolute horses**t, let's replace white privilege with Jew privilege and they'd call it racist.
It appears that you're knocking down strawmen. When you want to deal with the actual subject, then please let us know.
What subject?
Supposedly white privilege and institutional racism are the cause of the downtrodden status of minorities in this country but that ignores the fact that there are more white people in poverty than there are anyone else. So who do these poor whites oppressors get to point their finger at if they already so privileged by their race?
As I mentioned, I don't hear many people who decry white privilege talk much about Jewish privilege despite being the wealthiest, most politically represented, most nepotistic group in America. Why is that? Louis Farrakhan is the only one I can think of and he isn't someone most of you guys would be comfortable supporting.
Because whites are much more numerous than blacks, a fact of which I am sure you are in knowledge, that would skew the numbers a bit. You need to look instead at proportions:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_i ... Fethnicity
Looking at that, which sources the 2010 Census data, it appears that a black person is nearly 3 times as likely to live in poverty as a white person.
So, yes, black people are disproportionately affected by poverty.
As for the Jews, we are talking about race, not religion. Keep in mind, though, that in situations where Jews were treated as a racial group, they were treated very badly.
_________________
"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin
19 Jan 2014, 6:21 pm
LoveNotHate wrote:
beneficii wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Racism: poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race. ( http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism )
No it is not in the past.
The U.S. government, local municipalities, and public universities all promote racism.
Barack Obama promotes racism. ( http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... n-programs )
Minorities promoting racial preference laws are racist.
Why wouldn't white (probably Asians too since they don't get counted as a minority for some reason) people respond to these racists will similar racism ?
No it is not in the past.
The U.S. government, local municipalities, and public universities all promote racism.
Barack Obama promotes racism. ( http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... n-programs )
Minorities promoting racial preference laws are racist.
Why wouldn't white (probably Asians too since they don't get counted as a minority for some reason) people respond to these racists will similar racism ?
Considering the massive disadvantages and still existing covert racism that many people of color face to begin with, what's wrong with giving them a handicap (a method to level the game, so to speak) like affirmative action? Saying affirmative action is discrimination against whites misses the whole historical and present context.
Your original question asked, "Hey! I thought racism in America was a thing of the past!" and I responded to that question. Now you qualify the question, with "in view of the historical and present context", however, that qualification is irrelevant to the definition of a word.
Is hiring a White , Asian, Hispanic-White person over black people racism ? That is what that the original article seemed to present? Now isn't also racism to hire a black people person over a white, Asian, White-Hispanic person ?
Further, it makes sense to me that discriminated White, Asian, Hispanic-White people would practice discrimination precisely because they are being discriminated against by the other racial types. I believe strongly that by means of unintended consequences - affirmative actions causes people to be racists.
Affirmative action is absolutely necessary to combat the historical and present wrongs that disadvantage minority groups; the purpose is not to turn whites (or men) into a disadvantaged group, but to lift up people of color (and women). If you can think of any better ideas for combating them and lifting up minorities, then we'd be all ears.
_________________
"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin
19 Jan 2014, 6:47 pm
beneficii wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
TheGoggles wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
The job market sucks for everybody, at least it does for me personally. Please don't tell me I'm "privileged" because of my race. I'm not sure Bianca White is way more identifiably white than Yolanda Spivey tho, the surveys on monster supposedly don't even go to the employer AFAIK altho I've been felt unease at the question as well. The way that blog post reads reminds of that Eddie Murphy skit from SNL in the 80s "White Like Me".
Hey guys, I know that I'm privileged and provide examples about how I'm privileged, but please don't tell me that I am! Acknowledging my privilege makes it harder for me to be a victim!
Hey, I'm a condescending dbag with nothing to contribute.
Probably the biggest misconception a lot of minorities have about white people is that they're all rich and gifted opportunities when the reality is that there are more poor whites than there any other demographic but I guess they actually deserve to be poor. This privilege theory is just absolute horses**t, let's replace white privilege with Jew privilege and they'd call it racist.
It appears that you're knocking down strawmen. When you want to deal with the actual subject, then please let us know.
What subject?
Supposedly white privilege and institutional racism are the cause of the downtrodden status of minorities in this country but that ignores the fact that there are more white people in poverty than there are anyone else. So who do these poor whites oppressors get to point their finger at if they already so privileged by their race?
As I mentioned, I don't hear many people who decry white privilege talk much about Jewish privilege despite being the wealthiest, most politically represented, most nepotistic group in America. Why is that? Louis Farrakhan is the only one I can think of and he isn't someone most of you guys would be comfortable supporting.
Because whites are much more numerous than blacks, a fact of which I am sure you are in knowledge, that would skew the numbers a bit. You need to look instead at proportions:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_i ... Fethnicity
Looking at that, which sources the 2010 Census data, it appears that a black person is nearly 3 times as likely to live in poverty as a white person.
So, yes, black people are disproportionately affected by poverty.
As for the Jews, we are talking about race, not religion. Keep in mind, though, that in situations where Jews were treated as a racial group, they were treated very badly.
My point is are those poor whites privileged by their race? If white privilege and institutional racism are the blame for all the problems facing minorities in this country then who do the white poor get to point their finger at? Do these poor whites who supposedly share this privilege actually deserve to be poor?
Jews consider themselves a race, if you're a non-practicing Jew you are still a jew. If you decry the evil's white privilege and liken them to oppressors then you have to do the same to Jews as well who are on average more "privileged" than any other demographic group in America. Are you comfortable making the argument?
19 Jan 2014, 7:10 pm
Jacoby wrote:
My point is are those poor whites privileged by their race? If white privilege and institutional racism are the blame for all the problems facing minorities in this country then who do the white poor get to point their finger at? Do these poor whites who supposedly share this privilege actually deserve to be poor?
The poor person lacks class privilege. Nevertheless, in general poor whites are not as poorly off as poor blacks, because poor whites don't have to deal with the intersectionality of both class oppression and racial oppression that poor blacks have to face.
_________________
"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin
19 Jan 2014, 7:12 pm
TheGoggles wrote:
Quote:
I don't hear many people who decry white privilege talk much about Jewish privilege despite being the wealthiest, most politically represented, most nepotistic group in America.
Boy, I get the feeling you're not the biggest fan of Jewish people.
I don't buy into the theory of privilege, I am using your logic.
19 Jan 2014, 7:14 pm
beneficii wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
beneficii wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Racism: poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race. ( http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism )
No it is not in the past.
The U.S. government, local municipalities, and public universities all promote racism.
Barack Obama promotes racism. ( http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... n-programs )
Minorities promoting racial preference laws are racist.
Why wouldn't white (probably Asians too since they don't get counted as a minority for some reason) people respond to these racists will similar racism ?
No it is not in the past.
The U.S. government, local municipalities, and public universities all promote racism.
Barack Obama promotes racism. ( http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... n-programs )
Minorities promoting racial preference laws are racist.
Why wouldn't white (probably Asians too since they don't get counted as a minority for some reason) people respond to these racists will similar racism ?
Considering the massive disadvantages and still existing covert racism that many people of color face to begin with, what's wrong with giving them a handicap (a method to level the game, so to speak) like affirmative action? Saying affirmative action is discrimination against whites misses the whole historical and present context.
Your original question asked, "Hey! I thought racism in America was a thing of the past!" and I responded to that question. Now you qualify the question, with "in view of the historical and present context", however, that qualification is irrelevant to the definition of a word.
Is hiring a White , Asian, Hispanic-White person over black people racism ? That is what that the original article seemed to present? Now isn't also racism to hire a black people person over a white, Asian, White-Hispanic person ?
Further, it makes sense to me that discriminated White, Asian, Hispanic-White people would practice discrimination precisely because they are being discriminated against by the other racial types. I believe strongly that by means of unintended consequences - affirmative actions causes people to be racists.
Affirmative action is absolutely necessary to combat the historical and present wrongs that disadvantage minority groups; the purpose is not to turn whites (or men) into a disadvantaged group, but to lift up people of color (and women). If you can think of any better ideas for combating them and lifting up minorities, then we'd be all ears.
You ask, "what is wrong", besides being a racist ...
1. Unintended consequences ...
Rasmussen Reports: More Americans View Blacks As Racist Than Whites, Hispanics
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... _hispanics
Quoted: "Most Americans believe affirmative action admissions policies discriminate against whites, as the lawsuit argues, and think it’s better for colleges and universities to accept the most qualified students".
2. With regards to "affirmative action".
Racial Preferences for the Privileged
Quoted: "Long past are the days when affirmative action proponents could argue they were simply trying to help disadvantaged minorities, much less actual victims of discrimination. Now, the rallying cry is simply to bolster the number of black and Hispanic students on campus — even if it means denying admission to better-qualified white and Asian students who also happen to be more economically disadvantaged than the favored minorities" ( http://www.creators.com/opinion/linda-c ... leged.html )
"Affirmative Action" is about helping wealthy black and Hispanic people, not disadvantaged people. Because they only look at skin pigmentation.
