Thomas Perkins: Taxing the rich = The holocaust

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Dox47
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27 Jan 2014, 5:58 am

Schneekugel wrote:
Ok, so where do I find in the USA or europe the rhetoric, that rich people should not be allowed to give woman jobs in their houses and factories, because of them being so evil, that they would misuse their power and force that poor woman to sleep with them, and so dirten their proletarian blood with their diseased rich blood? Which people are right now talking about rich people being denied to use public transportation, own cars, bicycles, ... Where exactly are people talking and using a rhetoric to ensure, that rich people dont become teachers, doctors, actors, or any other public jobs ... so that they cannot get influence over other people and cultures, including all people that own at least 25% rich people blood? Which university exactly are denying rich people and their children to study at their place, because of them being rich or having no "proletarian-pure-poor-blood" acording to the rhetoric, that shall be similar to those use against jewish people? And where exactly are the films, shown in cinemas, which are rhetorically teaching us in pseudo scientific ways, that rich people are similar to rats and cockroaches, and need to be wiped out, to clear the "proletarian blood" from them?

I mean if you say, that the rhetoric used, is comparable to those used against the jews, then there must be similarities.


Look, I know English is not your native language, but you really should read a little more carefully before posting, as I was not advancing an argument myself, but pointing out that being made by another person.


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Schneekugel
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27 Jan 2014, 6:50 am

But the argument, that the guy is not pointing out on taxes, but on the similar rhetoric, being used against jews, is simply wrong, when there is no similar rhetoric being used. So either the guy is totally stupid, if he really thinks that the rhetoric was similar, or you are wrong, with your suggestion, that the guy might be talking about the comparable rhetoric.



Kraichgauer
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27 Jan 2014, 12:22 pm

Anyone who seriously believes there is even the remotest chance of the rich being herded into concentration camps to be worked to death or gassed needs to be kept away from the care of children or other vulnerable people, as well as probably denied drivers licenses, from operating heavy machinery, and from sharp objects in general.


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LoveNotHate
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27 Jan 2014, 1:44 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum

The Reductio ad Hitlerum is an informal fallacy that consists of trying to refute an opponent's view by comparing it to a view that would be held by Adolf Hitler or the Nazi Party.



AceOfSpades
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27 Jan 2014, 1:48 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Anyone who seriously believes there is even the remotest chance of the rich being herded into concentration camps to be worked to death or gassed needs to be kept away from the care of children or other vulnerable people, as well as probably denied drivers licenses, from operating heavy machinery, and from sharp objects in general.
Wouldn't that be a self-fulfilling prophesy? I don't think anyone even needs to take this goof seriously.



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27 Jan 2014, 2:05 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5877222.html#5877222

This perfectly sums up the mindset of people who talk out of their ass, even after good faith efforts at education have been made.


It is true though.

The libertarian hysteria about taxes and the co-ercion of state is absolutely nauseating at times.

If libertarians think their stateless or semi-stateless utopia would be so great, i wish they would buy an island somewhere and get on with it. At least then they can shut up and stop bothering the rest of us. God knows, there must be enough money among them to do that.

Also the rest of us can say 'told ya so' when the whole project grinds to a halt and the stated nations end up having to bail it out and feed its starving vulnerable because the wealthy of its society refuse to help and it begins to erode from the bottom up.
You could always take your own advice if it bothers you that much for others to have their own opinions. I'd be amazed if any human being lasted 5 minutes on an island with someone as obnoxious as you. Even after countless rebuttals to your sweeping generalizations you still manage to convince yourself you know what's "true" for libertarians better than they do.


Excuse me. Ever hear of John Gault? I think the libertarians need to put up or shut-up.

I say we let Texas leave the union and take all the libertarians with them. Then they can teach us nonproductive parasites a lesson!

:roll:


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AceOfSpades
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27 Jan 2014, 2:23 pm

I don't know who John Gault is or what Texas has to do with anything but you guys just can't resist putting words into every libertarian's mouths with loaded terms like "nonproductive parasites". I'm done with this discussion, I've had enough condescending BS for one day.



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27 Jan 2014, 2:36 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
I don't know who John Gault is or what Texas has to do with anything but you guys just can't resist putting words into every libertarian's mouths with loaded terms like "nonproductive parasites". I'm done with this discussion, I've had enough condescending BS for one day.


John Galt is a fictional character in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged (regarded as the libertarian Bible), who is the living embodiment of wonderful values such as selfishness, contempt and hate of the poor, ignoring the needs of your fellow human beings, etc.
And Texas is regarded by conservatives of a libertarian bent to be paradise on earth, as taxes on the wealthy are low (despite not reciprocating with high paying job creation), and where those evil, greedy poor people are punished by denying them medical coverage or other social programs.


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GoonSquad
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27 Jan 2014, 2:41 pm

^^^ Sorry, it's John Galt (no u), you know, libertarian Jesus and hero of the libertarian bible, Atlas Shrugged.

Quote:
The novel unfolds in a progressive retrospective, with Galt, the son of an Ohio garage mechanic, leaving home at age twelve and beginning college at the fictional Patrick Henry University at age sixteen. There he meets Francisco d'Anconia and Ragnar Danneskjöld, who become his two closest friends. Galt takes a double major in physics and philosophy, and after graduating, he becomes an engineer at the Twentieth Century Motor Company, where he designs a revolutionary new motor powered by ambient static electricity. When the company owners decide to run the factory by the collectivist maxim, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need", Galt refuses to work there any longer and abandons his motor.

During the main storyline of the book, Galt has secretly organized a strike by the world's creative leaders, including inventors, artists and businessmen, in an effort to "stop the motor of the world" and bring about the collapse of the bureaucratic society. While working incognito as a laborer for Taggart Transcontinental railroad, he travels to visit the key figures that he has not yet recruited, systematically persuading them to join the strike. This strike is not revealed immediately within the story, but forms the backdrop of the novel as a mystery which protagonist Dagny Taggart seeks to uncover, with Galt as her antagonist. The strikers have created their own secret enclave known as "Galt's Gulch", a town secluded in a Colorado mountain valley, based on Ouray, Colorado. While in the valley, Dagny develops a romantic relationship with Galt, although she refuses to join the strike. After she returns home to New York, Galt takes over the airwaves, delivering a lengthy speech that explains what he sees to be the irrationality of collectivism and offers his own philosophy (Ayn Rand's Objectivism) as an alternative. Galt speaks against what he sees as the evil of collectivism and the idea that individuals must be responsible for each other, and says they should be replaced by rational selfishness. Seeking Galt after the speech, Dagny accidentally leads the authorities to him, and he is arrested. She and the strikers rescue Galt as the government attempts to torture him. They return to Galt's Gulch and prepare to rebuild the rest of the world, as the collapse of the incompetent government nears.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Galt

PS

...or, what Bill said. :P


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luanqibazao
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27 Jan 2014, 3:24 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
John Galt is a fictional character in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged (regarded as the libertarian Bible), who is the living embodiment of wonderful values such as selfishness, contempt and hate of the poor, ignoring the needs of your fellow human beings, etc.


So many errors in a single sentence ...

1. Libertarians ≠ Objectivists. Many libertarians have not read Rand.

2. Even Objectivists do not treat Atlas as a bible.

3. What Rand meant by "selfishness" is not what you mean by it.

4. "Contempt and hate of the poor" is not part of Objectivism. In fact Galt and many of the other heroes of Atlas spend most of the book being poor, while all of the villains are rich and powerful. The hero of The Fountainhead also spends much of that book being poor, in contrast to a man with different values who enjoys wealth and fame.

5. If you believe that you are responsible for satisfying the needs of your fellow human beings, what the hell are you doing playing on the Internet? Surely there's somebody somewhere you could be helping!

6. None of this has anything to do with a rich old man who made a tasteless and inappropriate comparison ....



Last edited by luanqibazao on 27 Jan 2014, 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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27 Jan 2014, 4:05 pm

luanqibazao wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
John Galt is a fictional character in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged (regarded as the libertarian Bible), who is the living embodiment of wonderful values such as selfishness, contempt and hate of the poor, ignoring the needs of your fellow human beings, etc.


So many errors in a single sentence ...

1. Libertarians ≠ Objectivists. Many libertarians have not read Rand.

2. Even Objectivists do not treat Atlas as a bible.

3. What Rand meant by "selfishness" is not what you mean by it.

4. "Contempt and hate of the poor" is not part of Objectivism. In fact Galt and many of the other heroes of Atlas spend most of the book being poor, while all of the villains are rich and powerful. The hero of The Fountainhead also spends much of that book being poor, in contrast to a man with different values who enjoys wealth and fame.

5. If you believe that you are responsible for satisfying the needs of your fellow human beings, what the hell are you doing playing on the Internet? Surely there's somebody somewhere you could be helping!

6. None if this has anything to do with a rich old man who made a tasteless and inappropriate comparison ....


I think Kraichgauer is secretly an advertising agent for the publishing company that prints Atlas Shrugged and Rand's other works. For anything that a liberal finds so repugnant is something any non-liberal would love to read.


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27 Jan 2014, 5:47 pm

Raptor wrote:
luanqibazao wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
John Galt is a fictional character in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged (regarded as the libertarian Bible), who is the living embodiment of wonderful values such as selfishness, contempt and hate of the poor, ignoring the needs of your fellow human beings, etc.


So many errors in a single sentence ...

1. Libertarians ≠ Objectivists. Many libertarians have not read Rand.

2. Even Objectivists do not treat Atlas as a bible.

3. What Rand meant by "selfishness" is not what you mean by it.

4. "Contempt and hate of the poor" is not part of Objectivism. In fact Galt and many of the other heroes of Atlas spend most of the book being poor, while all of the villains are rich and powerful. The hero of The Fountainhead also spends much of that book being poor, in contrast to a man with different values who enjoys wealth and fame.

5. If you believe that you are responsible for satisfying the needs of your fellow human beings, what the hell are you doing playing on the Internet? Surely there's somebody somewhere you could be helping!

6. None if this has anything to do with a rich old man who made a tasteless and inappropriate comparison ....


I think Kraichgauer is secretly an advertising agent for the publishing company that prints Atlas Shrugged and Rand's other works. For anything that a liberal finds so repugnant is something any non-liberal would love to read.


Damn it, you're on to me!


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Dox47
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27 Jan 2014, 5:50 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
regarded as the libertarian Bible


...by willfully pig ignorant non libertarians.


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27 Jan 2014, 5:50 pm

luanqibazao wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
John Galt is a fictional character in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged (regarded as the libertarian Bible), who is the living embodiment of wonderful values such as selfishness, contempt and hate of the poor, ignoring the needs of your fellow human beings, etc.


So many errors in a single sentence ...

1. Libertarians ≠ Objectivists. Many libertarians have not read Rand.

2. Even Objectivists do not treat Atlas as a bible.

3. What Rand meant by "selfishness" is not what you mean by it.

4. "Contempt and hate of the poor" is not part of Objectivism. In fact Galt and many of the other heroes of Atlas spend most of the book being poor, while all of the villains are rich and powerful. The hero of The Fountainhead also spends much of that book being poor, in contrast to a man with different values who enjoys wealth and fame.

5. If you believe that you are responsible for satisfying the needs of your fellow human beings, what the hell are you doing playing on the Internet? Surely there's somebody somewhere you could be helping!

6. None of this has anything to do with a rich old man who made a tasteless and inappropriate comparison ....


So what if Galt starts out as poor? A principle canon of the conservative/Libertarian mythology is the Horatio Alger success stories.
And as I recall, the Wikipedia entry already presented about Galt says that he decried taking care of each other in that endless speech of his.


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27 Jan 2014, 6:19 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
regarded as the libertarian Bible


...by willfully pig ignorant non libertarians.


Pig ignorant, now!


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luanqibazao
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27 Jan 2014, 6:20 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
So what if Galt starts out as poor?


So you think Objectivists are obliged to feel contempt and hatred for Galt et al. for the large portion of the book where they are poor, and only find them admirable when they achieve material success? :roll:

And I noticed you didn't answer my question ....