euthanasia

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snake321, I understand this topic isn't an easy one. I didn't mean to cause you any emotional harm, and if I did I am most sincerely sorry. I wish you the best with your situation.

If someone wants to respond to me that's OK, but I think it's best for me to move on from this topic.

Oh no it's nothing you've said dude. Honestly, it's not.

Of course, that is what I meant.
I actually used the term 'euthanasia' because I associate with the term 'suicide' mostly a violent death, like hanging, asphyxiation or other ways of self-induced, lonesome death with a high probability to end up disabled. I am opposed to these forms of suicide, even though someone chose it for himself.



There are those who choose suicide because of deep emotional disorders and stress or it is simply a form of desperate cry for help to them (even though they perhaps wouldn't admit that or are not aware of this), but there are also people who clear-mindedly think of death as a logical option to prevent future unpleasentries in their lives. Be it selfish or be it not, under the right prerequisites and moral conditions of human dignity I would consent of it. There are a lot of african children with a lot more will to survive than me who would be glad to take my place. It's a kind of natural selection typical to the western world, I would think.

Sorry, I didn't mean to insult you or anybody, I just was pissed off because of all the lies and so, what's not actually your fault.

I'm sorry.

My apologies to everyone and of course my apologies to you.

Still I want to respond:

Okay, good idea, post them. Posted by the government? No. If they suspected this to be true, euthanasia would be banned right away. Our doctors don't 'kill' babies, unless there is a really really really good reason for it. Not if it's just handicapped in anyway, or even only ugly, as some Americans appear to believe. Only if it has no chance to live any much longer anyway, they'll end his suffering. And even then only with strict permission from the parents. Both parties must agree.


More tolerant? Maybe. But it's not hatred we feel on America (okay, we're angry at the american government, but with good reasons) but the insane things that happen there. They're funny and as far as I know, one doesnt laugh on things one hates.
Less racist? No. I think your basing your arguments again on the wrong sources.


No, I don't say it's Government controlled, I said the american media is bad. If you look at the fact that most americans believed Sadam was allied with Al Qaida, that evolution isn't truth, but ID (that's spread by the media, there are almost no scientific articels on it), that's Dutch are stoned all day, kill babies etc. and many more, then I'd highly doubt the American media is a reliable source. Moreover because over half of the americans appears to be christianfundamentalist, so it sells to say pro-christian things. It doesn't sell to say things people have another opinion on. It sells to give extra base (even if it's all lies) to the opinions of people. That the government is lead by christianfundamentalists (yes, one who ends all his sentences with 'god bless america is not just a christian) means that the government is mainly helped by the media.


This was meant as an example to relate to the fact that doctors kill children (and other people) with probably a better chance to live a better live than this Schiavo. The American media (and Bush, who tried to have a law accepted just in time to let her live) never mentioned that part.


I didn't mean killing by gangsters and so. I meant by doctors.


Check your sources...I mean check that you have the right sources. 11,140 out of 125,000 deaths euthanasia? Well, if they don't want to live, okay, then you have the right to die. 1,040 involuntary? Your source says 1,040 killed then. You know, if these 'facts' would be true, do you really think we would allow euthenasia? Even the enemies here in holland don't accept these numbers, they're against euthenasia for their religion, not because it doesn't work properly. It works properly, so I'm sorry, these can't be true.

I think we have some confusion here. Involunatary evolution is not killing children without their parent's permisson - it's pulling the plug.

I do not, and never will, see why anyone objects to children on the largest continent.

I am against suicide. I could state my reasons but why bother? It isn't like they would stop somebody from doing such an act. But what I could say to such a person is this: Even if you have one more great day, maybe next year, maybe five years from now, it could be unexpected, you might work for eight months to have such a day, but if you could have one more great day, then for that great day, that day which nobody could take away from you, much much suffering becomes worth it. It is the little good moments that make the many bad ones vindicated.

people have a right to die if they want to.

Please back this statement up with some factual evidence, otherwise it will be dismissed as anti-American ranting. jimservo was kind enough to back his statements up with Dutch government statistics.

Okay, dude. Read his source a moment.
"Unlike the Dutch, Americans do not come to the decision whether to accept legalized assisted suicide blindly. We have the Dutch experience to guide us."
Does this sound as a Dutch government source?
My source is the dutch news, that, in contrary to the american news, that is completely liberalized, not dependent on funds, from, like, christians. There they had a talk with a black american 'mother', whose kid was just 'euthanized', without her permission. I can't find the source at the moment, so I won't spread with false sources. But also mentioned in the tele-program was the statement that continually cases like the one with Terri Schiavo occur in the US, but that they aren't mentioned.
Look, I'm not anti-America ranting. I'm telling things that are stated by our !independent! media as true. Maybe I'm mistaken by believing them, but because of other issues I believe the Dutch media are by far more reliable than the american. So I still tend to believe them.
By the way, what's jimservo doing then? Not anti-Holland ranting?

We have thousands of media outlets ranging from very liberal to very conservative. Newspapers and television are supported by advertising, not by "Christians."



We hear about anything that is sensational, believe me! The Schavo case centered around her husband's desire for her to die vs. her PARENTS' desire for her to live. The government had nothing to do with it, except to use it as a means to make speeches for certain positions.

America is a huge country with many groups who have a diverse point of view. The media reports the most sensational stories and America is nothing like what is reported on the media. We believe that people should be able to believe whatever they wish. There is no standard doctrine of belief in our country. We argue and debate everything.

Not under most legal systems. Whether they should have such a right is a good question though, and under what circumstances. How does chronic emotional suffering fit into this?

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America is not like that? Someone I know was in America last year, and she saw the news on tele. First fifteen minutes were on some American politician that had done something very bad (I don't remember what, but it sounded pretty dull) and then only sixty seconds news of the world. One minute! In Holland every issue gets one minute, but America believes itself important enough to only spend one minute on the rest of the world.
By the way, Holland is neither nowhere near as the American media reports.
And Americans indeed argue everything...sometimes too much. So that most people get stocked up in the debates of decades ago. Debates on Darwin and so are old, get up to new debates!

Umm. No. you are mistaken there. Not all Americans are Christians and advertisers sponsors programming that Christians disapprove of. Many Americans are Jewish, agnostic, atheist, some Muslims, Bahai, wiccan, and others.



Actually, he stood to gain financially from her death.

We can get any news we wish. I have 300 TV channels, a multitude of newspapers and alternative media on the web. I seldom watch the television news.



It depends on which channel you select to watch the news. We have a channel devoted to nothing but world news 24/7. What people watch depends on what interests people. The entire concept of "America thinks" is rather silly because we each think for ourselves. We are independent minded, apt to vote for either political party, and our views are not so much national, but local, depending on our geographic location in the United States.

If one is getting an idea about America from watching CNN, you're missing 99% of the real American people.



No one is seriously debating Darwin. A certain group of fundamentalist Christians disaaprove of evolution. But other Christians accept it and do not interpret the Bible literally. The fundamentalist views are sensational and get coverage. The odd, controversial and freaky get all the attention. Mundane things are boring to many NT people.

The ground-breaking work on eveolutionary biology was done at Harvard by Americans. The neurological basis of autism was established by an American. We are unconventional thinkers and can easily depart from the status quo.

Americans have a hard time with the concept that everyone in a country has to have the same point of view. To us, that is more nationalistic than simply saying "God Bless America." America is an idea that any idea is possible and individual to the holder of the idea. That is what our "nationalism" is all about.

-Jewish, agnostic, muslim...okay, but not atheist. Certainly some are, but not much will admit.

-...Just out of interest: how did he want to make money?
Still she shouldn't live longer anyway imo, nobody should ever live like that for so many years, euthanasia isn't bad in those cases. Btw it wasn't even true euthanasia.

-300 Channels. And still all watch Fox... and you no, we don't have to travel to america to watch CNN, we can watch it over here btw the web is alway a worse source than the tele uncontrolled et cetera...

-Independent minded? You know, sometimes I watch the tele-church (or whatever it's called) and when I hear the priest say things like: we aren't fundamentalists, but atheists are, and the public hums in approval, then I think, yes, americans are simple-minded. Of course, not all are, most aren't I'm sure, but it's certainly not true each thinks for themselves. With America I mean most Americans.

-EITHER political party indeed. You know, we've got 10 political parties in parliament, of which 4 good candidates to win the elections. You have only two. Both right-winged. Not much choice, isn't it?
Last year I put my votes (different elections) on two different parties, and now tend to vote on even another one. Now that's much choice eh!

-Not national?

-...According to some American research, over 50 percent doubts Darwin's theories nowadays.

-All ideas are possible, more in Holland than over there in America I'm sure. And you know why you're free to think? Because there's no totalitarism in America (well...)...just as in most countries in the civilized world.

...is not a realistic concern if we are basing our laws on a strong, consistent ethical theory.