Pat Condell: 'A society of cowards'

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I think if the news programs are going to report about these things then I think they should really show us the images that provoked the story. If only to show us what a silly picture can do.

They are showing themselves to be scared and if more TV and Newspapers printed these images it would force the issue out into the open rather than keeping it behind some veil (no pun intended) and making it seem hushed up and taboo and not to be talked about.

The offended Muslims need to confront their feelings rather than the rest of us tip toeing around them.

Its amazing how when it comes to Islam, the left wing turns a blind eye toward violence against women and gays.

We havent' dealt with homophobia and sexism in our own countries let alone the islamic world.

Its more than a little rich to call hypocrisy when considering traditionally, the right wing is antipathetic on womens and gay issues with the one exception that the word islam is uttered.

His inconcealable look of glee between each complaint wasn't lost on me either.

He really savours scoring political points. The man is a demagogue.

If his wikipedia article is to be believed, he has spoken in a supportive tone of European fascists like Geert Wilders. Says everything that needs to be said.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Condell

That's not a fair comparison. A better comparison is this: If anyone has not criticised that jerk who spat on the granny today, because they are afraid of murdered if they do so, then stop being such a coward and grow some balls.

Uh, wut?

It's not the right wing that screeches at the slightest suggestion of any violation of women's and gay rights, real or imagined.

at least the left doesnt falsely pretend to be an ally of women or gays, in the context of islam and islam only.

So anyone not in favor of the Islamisation of their county is a facist?
Hypothetical question: What would you think if, for whatever reason, American far right wingers started emigrating to Europe in the same numbers as those from Islamic nations?

Its a loaded question because the idea that countries like the UK or Netherlands is being 'islamified' (whatever that means) is a fabrication.


The likes of Geert Wilders are fascists not only because of their stance on Islam but also because they advocate the silencing of their opponents.

In my experience the only ones in Europe who use the words 'Islamification' or 'Islamified' are extreme right nutters like the Dutch freedom party or the BNP.

American right wingers emigrating to Europe wouldnt make much difference because contemporary US political values are already being wholesalely exported round the world anyway.

It's more along the lines of free speech. We do not want Islamists (or any organised grouping) subverting our core Western values. You can bet the house on the fact that if Christian fundamentalists started demanding female segregation or called for the death of gay people, they would be squelched so fast you wouldn't see it happen if you did half a blink.

Also, a lot of those people who are anti-Islamism are of the left. It's not a left/right thing. It's more a freedom thing - it's about those people that do not want their society harmed by religious poison that will strangle our secular society. We've managed to mostly overcome the Christian hold on the state; the last thing we want is the same thing in an Islamic mould! (Muslim countries aren't exactly great advertisements for it.)

I'd say he's a classical liberal in that he supports a safety net, but no more than that.



Condell is awesome.

By the way, squire: 'fund[i]a[i]ment.'

Well, the far right is inherently bad in a way that Islam isn't, so that isn't a fair comparison. You can't be a moderate far-rightist.

Better ones:
1) If ring-wing, Republican-voting Americans moved to the UK in the same numbers as Islamic people, nobody would mind. In the 80s, when immigration from Pakistan was at its peak, more Americans than Pakistanis were emigrating to the UK. Nobody complained about the Americans (or Canadians or Australians, who were also coming over in larger numbers), only the Jamaicans and Indians and Pakistanis. Make of that what you wish.
2) If far right Americans who think the GOP is becoming a bit too friendly with the Commies started moving here in the same numbers as Islamic extremists, I wouldn't mind very much. It's not worth getting your knickers in a twist over about 0.6% of the population. There are more transgender people in the UK than Islamic extremists. It wouldn't even significantly affect the UKIP vote, though I guess they could be concentrated enough to help them win a seat or something.

I believe that Islam - as derived from a reading of its scriptural sources that is in any way literalist - is an inherently bad ideology. Frankly, it needs to be left in the 7th century. Muslims can leave this behind and in time, that probably will happen as more and more people from that background manage to tackle the bigots that dominate their religion.

The Quran and Hadiths permit and sanctify all sorts of awful things - you really have to deal with the mindset that says that because the holy texts permit something (like, I don't know, having slaves) then it is OK. Christianity and Judaism have overcome these obstacles now it's up to Islam to do the same.

In time, more emphasis may be placed on the earlier Meccan verses, before dear old Mo got turned out and fled to Medina where he slaughtered the Jews that let him live there and took the city for Islam.



Oh, I'm sure I manage it with my conditional support for PVV and co.

Better ones:
[quote="The_Walrus"1) If ring-wing, Republican-voting Americans moved to the UK in the same numbers as Islamic people, nobody would mind. In the 80s, when immigration from Pakistan was at its peak, more Americans than Pakistanis were emigrating to the UK. Nobody complained about the Americans (or Canadians or Australians, who were also coming over in larger numbers), only the Jamaicans and Indians and Pakistanis. Make of that what you wish.[/quote]

Were they? I don't remember much talk of immigration from the U.S., Canada or Australia. Can you provide some statistics, please? Much of the immigration from Pakistan and India began in the late 1960s.

Canadians, Americans and Australians tend to fit in better than Jamaicans and Indians and Pakistanis. Though I would still ob

[quote="The_Walrus"]2) If far right Americans who think the GOP is becoming a bit too friendly with the Commies started moving here in the same numbers as Islamic extremists, I wouldn't mind very much. It's not worth getting your knickers in a twist over about 0.6% of the population. There are more transgender people in the UK than Islamic extremists.[/quote]

What you call Islamic extremists and what I call Islamic extremists is a lot wider. Basically, there is a large section of the Muslim community with some pretty horrific outlooks on the world. I can't think of anything comparable in wider British society unfortunately.

Oh, by the way - I've actually spent some time with a Muslim lady recently. Put it this way - she is in the revivalist missionising camp, so she's not a pleasant type.

Looking forward to the debate that Farage is going to have with Nick Clegg!

Pass me the pork scratchings!

I agree with you. However, literalist Islam is not necessary equivalent to Islam in reality.

Literalist Islam is the far right. Islam as a whole, if we are to continue the analogy, is the Conservative party.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static ... .stm#1980s

Apparently a lot of Britishers and Netherlanders don't agree with you.


So they're sort of like the Islamics in the UK that Condel is complaining about

I guess since the Soviets didn't get to come over and liberate you you'll settle for Islam doing it instead, eh?

Funny, we don't see it that way over here.

Yeah, and how moderate is a Muslim extremist?



In the 80's the only Americans going to the UK in high numbers were American military personnel to help keep Ivan from coming over the wall. Didn't need us over there you say? Apparently, the Iron Lady thought otherwise.