Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,160
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
17 Mar 2014, 10:18 am
Stannis wrote:
For the Romans, a political power play would require simultaneous religious maneuvering, since the allegiance of the gods to your cause was seen as an instrumental part of the process.
The more I read about the Cult of Mithras, the more I find odd about it. Its members were primarily high ranking soldiers, and it was a pastiche of religions that soldiers had encountered throughout the empire. Most notably Zoroastrianism (Persia). The Mithraic bas reliefs undergo an evolution, but the constants are Mithras cutting the throat of a white bull.
If you know your mythology, the white bull was a form taken by Zeus. So here we have a cult whose sacred imagery depicts a persian god cutting the throat of the father of the roman gods; the chief of the roman state religion. It does not take a genius to figure out this cults likely intentions.
The following is conjecture. I think the bas reliefs could be a record of the way this cult tried to take over the empire, a statement of intention, and a blueprint. They had levels of initiation, as most cults tend to have, nothing strange there, but it would have been a good way to test the conviction and loyalty of your initiates while they were planning treason. My idea is once you pass a certain rank in the cult of Mithras, they tell you what the cult is really about, and you start working with them to topple the emperor. At lower ranks, you're a zealot, and you're following orders.
I wonder if Christianity was the final stage of the Mithras cults strategy for domination.
I know I haven't explained this well, but I am tired
The more I read about the Cult of Mithras, the more I find odd about it. Its members were primarily high ranking soldiers, and it was a pastiche of religions that soldiers had encountered throughout the empire. Most notably Zoroastrianism (Persia). The Mithraic bas reliefs undergo an evolution, but the constants are Mithras cutting the throat of a white bull.
If you know your mythology, the white bull was a form taken by Zeus. So here we have a cult whose sacred imagery depicts a persian god cutting the throat of the father of the roman gods; the chief of the roman state religion. It does not take a genius to figure out this cults likely intentions.
The following is conjecture. I think the bas reliefs could be a record of the way this cult tried to take over the empire, a statement of intention, and a blueprint. They had levels of initiation, as most cults tend to have, nothing strange there, but it would have been a good way to test the conviction and loyalty of your initiates while they were planning treason. My idea is once you pass a certain rank in the cult of Mithras, they tell you what the cult is really about, and you start working with them to topple the emperor. At lower ranks, you're a zealot, and you're following orders.
I wonder if Christianity was the final stage of the Mithras cults strategy for domination.
I know I haven't explained this well, but I am tired
But the historic fact is, Mithras and Christianity were known to be rivals, and at times, violently so. It wasn't uncommon for Christians a few centuries later from the founding of their religion to desecrate temples of Mithras, as the last thing they needed was a competing messiah. I personally doubt there was a chance Christianity was simply the higher level of their rival faith.
17 Mar 2014, 12:10 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
Stannis wrote:
For the Romans, a political power play would require simultaneous religious maneuvering, since the allegiance of the gods to your cause was seen as an instrumental part of the process.
The more I read about the Cult of Mithras, the more I find odd about it. Its members were primarily high ranking soldiers, and it was a pastiche of religions that soldiers had encountered throughout the empire. Most notably Zoroastrianism (Persia). The Mithraic bas reliefs undergo an evolution, but the constants are Mithras cutting the throat of a white bull.
If you know your mythology, the white bull was a form taken by Zeus. So here we have a cult whose sacred imagery depicts a persian god cutting the throat of the father of the roman gods; the chief of the roman state religion. It does not take a genius to figure out this cults likely intentions.
The following is conjecture. I think the bas reliefs could be a record of the way this cult tried to take over the empire, a statement of intention, and a blueprint. They had levels of initiation, as most cults tend to have, nothing strange there, but it would have been a good way to test the conviction and loyalty of your initiates while they were planning treason. My idea is once you pass a certain rank in the cult of Mithras, they tell you what the cult is really about, and you start working with them to topple the emperor. At lower ranks, you're a zealot, and you're following orders.
I wonder if Christianity was the final stage of the Mithras cults strategy for domination.
I know I haven't explained this well, but I am tired
The more I read about the Cult of Mithras, the more I find odd about it. Its members were primarily high ranking soldiers, and it was a pastiche of religions that soldiers had encountered throughout the empire. Most notably Zoroastrianism (Persia). The Mithraic bas reliefs undergo an evolution, but the constants are Mithras cutting the throat of a white bull.
If you know your mythology, the white bull was a form taken by Zeus. So here we have a cult whose sacred imagery depicts a persian god cutting the throat of the father of the roman gods; the chief of the roman state religion. It does not take a genius to figure out this cults likely intentions.
The following is conjecture. I think the bas reliefs could be a record of the way this cult tried to take over the empire, a statement of intention, and a blueprint. They had levels of initiation, as most cults tend to have, nothing strange there, but it would have been a good way to test the conviction and loyalty of your initiates while they were planning treason. My idea is once you pass a certain rank in the cult of Mithras, they tell you what the cult is really about, and you start working with them to topple the emperor. At lower ranks, you're a zealot, and you're following orders.
I wonder if Christianity was the final stage of the Mithras cults strategy for domination.
I know I haven't explained this well, but I am tired
But the historic fact is, Mithras and Christianity were known to be rivals, and at times, violently so. It wasn't uncommon for Christians a few centuries later from the founding of their religion to desecrate temples of Mithras, as the last thing they needed was a competing messiah. I personally doubt there was a chance Christianity was simply the higher level of their rival faith.
As shaky as my hypothesis is, none of this contradicts it.
Once the power purpose of the Mithras cult stage was fulfilled, it would actually be beneficial for the Christians to destroy all traces of the earlier stages, which could, if understood, compromise them. Think of it like rocket separation; the cult of Mithras is necessary to get you to a certain stage, but after that you can let it burn up.
17 Mar 2014, 12:30 pm
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,160
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
17 Mar 2014, 2:08 pm
Stannis wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Stannis wrote:
For the Romans, a political power play would require simultaneous religious maneuvering, since the allegiance of the gods to your cause was seen as an instrumental part of the process.
The more I read about the Cult of Mithras, the more I find odd about it. Its members were primarily high ranking soldiers, and it was a pastiche of religions that soldiers had encountered throughout the empire. Most notably Zoroastrianism (Persia). The Mithraic bas reliefs undergo an evolution, but the constants are Mithras cutting the throat of a white bull.
If you know your mythology, the white bull was a form taken by Zeus. So here we have a cult whose sacred imagery depicts a persian god cutting the throat of the father of the roman gods; the chief of the roman state religion. It does not take a genius to figure out this cults likely intentions.
The following is conjecture. I think the bas reliefs could be a record of the way this cult tried to take over the empire, a statement of intention, and a blueprint. They had levels of initiation, as most cults tend to have, nothing strange there, but it would have been a good way to test the conviction and loyalty of your initiates while they were planning treason. My idea is once you pass a certain rank in the cult of Mithras, they tell you what the cult is really about, and you start working with them to topple the emperor. At lower ranks, you're a zealot, and you're following orders.
I wonder if Christianity was the final stage of the Mithras cults strategy for domination.
I know I haven't explained this well, but I am tired
The more I read about the Cult of Mithras, the more I find odd about it. Its members were primarily high ranking soldiers, and it was a pastiche of religions that soldiers had encountered throughout the empire. Most notably Zoroastrianism (Persia). The Mithraic bas reliefs undergo an evolution, but the constants are Mithras cutting the throat of a white bull.
If you know your mythology, the white bull was a form taken by Zeus. So here we have a cult whose sacred imagery depicts a persian god cutting the throat of the father of the roman gods; the chief of the roman state religion. It does not take a genius to figure out this cults likely intentions.
The following is conjecture. I think the bas reliefs could be a record of the way this cult tried to take over the empire, a statement of intention, and a blueprint. They had levels of initiation, as most cults tend to have, nothing strange there, but it would have been a good way to test the conviction and loyalty of your initiates while they were planning treason. My idea is once you pass a certain rank in the cult of Mithras, they tell you what the cult is really about, and you start working with them to topple the emperor. At lower ranks, you're a zealot, and you're following orders.
I wonder if Christianity was the final stage of the Mithras cults strategy for domination.
I know I haven't explained this well, but I am tired
But the historic fact is, Mithras and Christianity were known to be rivals, and at times, violently so. It wasn't uncommon for Christians a few centuries later from the founding of their religion to desecrate temples of Mithras, as the last thing they needed was a competing messiah. I personally doubt there was a chance Christianity was simply the higher level of their rival faith.
As shaky as my hypothesis is, none of this contradicts it.
Once the power purpose of the Mithras cult stage was fulfilled, it would actually be beneficial for the Christians to destroy all traces of the earlier stages, which could, if understood, compromise them. Think of it like rocket separation; the cult of Mithras is necessary to get you to a certain stage, but after that you can let it burn up.
As the worship of Mithras was widely accepted by the Roman empire, while Christianity was up to the time of Constantine illegal, I'm afraid I just don't see the possibility.
21 Mar 2014, 9:45 am
21 Mar 2014, 9:47 am
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,160
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
21 Mar 2014, 11:13 am
21 Mar 2014, 11:27 am
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,160
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
21 Mar 2014, 11:34 am
techstepgenr8tion
Veteran
Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,576
Location: 28th Path of Tzaddi
21 Mar 2014, 8:41 pm
21 Mar 2014, 9:51 pm
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