24 Mar 2014, 9:04 am
24 Mar 2014, 11:16 am
pawelk1986 wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
sliqua-jcooter wrote:
To be fair, police started increasing firepower in response to incidents where they were clearly and obviously outgunned - which led to some really tragic incidents (See: North Hollywood Shootout). Police snipers have to be able to disable vehicles, and occasionally engage targets at longer ranges (especially when deployed as part of an event protection detail, or protecting motorcades). In those situations, I can see where a larger caliber rifle would make sense.
You ever hear the old lawyer's adage, 'extraordinary cases make extraordinarily bad case law'? Similar principal, a handful of incidents has been used to justify a wholesale shift in the culture of policing, and not in a good direction. The best example is the SWAT team, once limited to large urban centers and only called out in the direst emergencies, now every small town has one 'just in case', and since people like to play with their toys, now they get called in to deliver misdemeanor pot warrants and bust up poker games, often with tragic results. Google "police militarization" some time, it's enlightening in a rage inducing sort of way.
sliqua-jcooter wrote:
Obviously this is highly dependent on the community. Anywhere but the most urban centers require officers to be in a vehicle to cover suitable ground.
Maybe if you're talking truly rural areas, but in the burbs and cities, there's no reason that beat walking couldn't be reemphasized, especially if they stopped treating every traffic stop like a possible terrorist incident and sending three cars for backup, or pulled the guys off of speed trap and meter minding and had them do something worthwhile for a change..
As for SWAT, we had complain about Polish SWAT team too.
A few years ago, SWAT squad raided the house of one Polish businessman, they had to arrest him because the tax office finds that there are inaccuracies in the income tax, and that is a member of the Russian mafia, the guy lived in a detached house. It was decided to send SWAT squad, they shot his dog, frightened his children, and then it turned out that they arrested the wrong guy, mobster they were looking for lived in the house next door, a Centralne Biruo Śledcze CBŚ -Central Bureau of Investigation Polish Police General Headquarters, they compare them self to FBI and Scotland Yard
but they screwed up the job badly and arrest warrant entered the wrong address, someone simply wrong. Now this guy is fighting in court for compensation for the destruction of the house, and moral damages, but the SWAT frightened his children and killed dogThat whole story, including shooting the dog, is common in the US as well.
24 Mar 2014, 7:14 pm
24 Mar 2014, 9:43 pm
25 Mar 2014, 1:12 pm
Raptor wrote:
pawelk1986 wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
sliqua-jcooter wrote:
To be fair, police started increasing firepower in response to incidents where they were clearly and obviously outgunned - which led to some really tragic incidents (See: North Hollywood Shootout). Police snipers have to be able to disable vehicles, and occasionally engage targets at longer ranges (especially when deployed as part of an event protection detail, or protecting motorcades). In those situations, I can see where a larger caliber rifle would make sense.
You ever hear the old lawyer's adage, 'extraordinary cases make extraordinarily bad case law'? Similar principal, a handful of incidents has been used to justify a wholesale shift in the culture of policing, and not in a good direction. The best example is the SWAT team, once limited to large urban centers and only called out in the direst emergencies, now every small town has one 'just in case', and since people like to play with their toys, now they get called in to deliver misdemeanor pot warrants and bust up poker games, often with tragic results. Google "police militarization" some time, it's enlightening in a rage inducing sort of way.
sliqua-jcooter wrote:
Obviously this is highly dependent on the community. Anywhere but the most urban centers require officers to be in a vehicle to cover suitable ground.
Maybe if you're talking truly rural areas, but in the burbs and cities, there's no reason that beat walking couldn't be reemphasized, especially if they stopped treating every traffic stop like a possible terrorist incident and sending three cars for backup, or pulled the guys off of speed trap and meter minding and had them do something worthwhile for a change..
As for SWAT, we had complain about Polish SWAT team too.
A few years ago, SWAT squad raided the house of one Polish businessman, they had to arrest him because the tax office finds that there are inaccuracies in the income tax, and that is a member of the Russian mafia, the guy lived in a detached house. It was decided to send SWAT squad, they shot his dog, frightened his children, and then it turned out that they arrested the wrong guy, mobster they were looking for lived in the house next door, a Centralne Biruo Śledcze CBŚ -Central Bureau of Investigation Polish Police General Headquarters, they compare them self to FBI and Scotland Yard
but they screwed up the job badly and arrest warrant entered the wrong address, someone simply wrong. Now this guy is fighting in court for compensation for the destruction of the house, and moral damages, but the SWAT frightened his children and killed dogThat whole story, including shooting the dog, is common in the US as well.
I wonder why SWAT team, wherever the are American, British or Polish kill the dog when they enter someone house.
Do they are psychos who like to shoot the defenseless pets?
25 Mar 2014, 1:22 pm
pawelk1986 wrote:
Raptor wrote:
pawelk1986 wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
sliqua-jcooter wrote:
To be fair, police started increasing firepower in response to incidents where they were clearly and obviously outgunned - which led to some really tragic incidents (See: North Hollywood Shootout). Police snipers have to be able to disable vehicles, and occasionally engage targets at longer ranges (especially when deployed as part of an event protection detail, or protecting motorcades). In those situations, I can see where a larger caliber rifle would make sense.
You ever hear the old lawyer's adage, 'extraordinary cases make extraordinarily bad case law'? Similar principal, a handful of incidents has been used to justify a wholesale shift in the culture of policing, and not in a good direction. The best example is the SWAT team, once limited to large urban centers and only called out in the direst emergencies, now every small town has one 'just in case', and since people like to play with their toys, now they get called in to deliver misdemeanor pot warrants and bust up poker games, often with tragic results. Google "police militarization" some time, it's enlightening in a rage inducing sort of way.
sliqua-jcooter wrote:
Obviously this is highly dependent on the community. Anywhere but the most urban centers require officers to be in a vehicle to cover suitable ground.
Maybe if you're talking truly rural areas, but in the burbs and cities, there's no reason that beat walking couldn't be reemphasized, especially if they stopped treating every traffic stop like a possible terrorist incident and sending three cars for backup, or pulled the guys off of speed trap and meter minding and had them do something worthwhile for a change..
As for SWAT, we had complain about Polish SWAT team too.
A few years ago, SWAT squad raided the house of one Polish businessman, they had to arrest him because the tax office finds that there are inaccuracies in the income tax, and that is a member of the Russian mafia, the guy lived in a detached house. It was decided to send SWAT squad, they shot his dog, frightened his children, and then it turned out that they arrested the wrong guy, mobster they were looking for lived in the house next door, a Centralne Biruo Śledcze CBŚ -Central Bureau of Investigation Polish Police General Headquarters, they compare them self to FBI and Scotland Yard
but they screwed up the job badly and arrest warrant entered the wrong address, someone simply wrong. Now this guy is fighting in court for compensation for the destruction of the house, and moral damages, but the SWAT frightened his children and killed dogThat whole story, including shooting the dog, is common in the US as well.
I wonder why SWAT team, wherever the are American, British or Polish kill the dog when they enter someone house.
Do they are psychos who like to shoot the defenseless pets?
Some BS about "officer safety" as an excuse but is seems that the dogs only have to be present to be shot. The real reason is for the shock and awe effect on the household being raided blitzkrieg style. Overwhelm people with a blistering use of force and they are likely to be compliant out of instant shock and terror.
I could see this tactic if they were going after a known murderer or in a hostage rescue effort but some of the cases where they are sing these tactics are for minor s**t like possession of marijuana or some other victimless crime.
