Why I fail to take most of feminism seriously!

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I pretty much agree with all that. Personally I disagree with the feminist movement as far as I understand it(which is admittedly not much) for a multitude of reasons (abortion being one, but that's because I think it's murder. If a fetus isn't human, then I have no problem with it). Even though I disagree with the feminist movement I still think woman should be treated equally well. I think that people should just be fair all around. If man A is better than woman A at a given job, than man A should be paid more. If it's the other way around, then the woman should be paid more.

Though I do have a tiny problem with women actively fighting in the military. Unfortunately in today's society women are objectified. And if a woman was captured in action, and I worry that her captors might attempt to take advantage of her. And it's undeniable that men are typically stronger than women. And I know that if one of my fellow human beings were being mistreated in such a way, and I had a fair chance of stopping it I would risk my life too, which in some cases might be detrimental to the war/battle in general.

Sorry if this hurts somebodies feelings. I know it's a sensitive topic for many NTs and I'm not entirely sure of all the differences of aspies and NTs. You guys probably don't care much. But doesn't hurt to play it safe.

That's just some psycho with a blog. There are thousands, if not millions of men and women who are even more insane than she is writing stuff on the internet. She has no credentials and isn't noteworthy for any other reason than her attention-****ing Wordpress account. I don't know about you, but I don't have the spare time needed to care about some Wiccan hamtroll waxing poetic about the magical spirits in her lawn trimmings.

Thats a relief I guess I am at peace now. I have been shed new light on it all really and feel obligated to apologize to the feminists for my antics and false assumptions. I just wish there werent radicals sending the wrong messages and messing things up, but i guess there's radicals in every group and the best thing is not listen to them they are a detriment to the cause. I know its kinda odd me being serious for once about something and being sincere certain circumstances have changed in my life the past few weeks and has awoken me.

Ugh, not even sure where to begin with this. "I believe women should be treated equally, except when it comes to...blah blah blah." Personally I don't think anyone should join an army, but shouldn't it be up to the woman in question to decide whether the risk of being captured and "taken advantage of" is an acceptable one or not? A man could be captured and taken advantage of, or tortured in some other way and they're allowed to determine for themselves whether that is an acceptable risk.

I don't know how someone can say they're completely against the feminist movement, but then say they think women should have equal rights in the same sentence. lol "I think you should have equal rights, but I don't think you should fight to have those equal rights," is basically what you're saying and what I'm hearing and I find it absolutely mind-boggling. How else does one achieve equality exactly? If in the year 2014 we are still living in a world without gender equality then I'd say the feminist movement is pretty necessary and I'm not sure how someone who thinks women should be equal could think otherwise.

It's pretty simple actually, feminism can be extremely off-putting, with it's current obsession with "privilege checking" and "patriarchy" and such, leading even people who broadly agree with women's rights issues to shun feminism and feminists as a group. Personally, I react about the same way to people introducing themselves as feminists as I do to people introducing themselves as Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons, which is to say that I expect to get preached at in a tiresome manner by people who think their own particular worldview is gospel truth. Sounds like fun, right?

Yeah it was a poorly worded reply. Yeah your right, everybody ought to be able to decide they're own destiny.
So I take back that part. My feelings on the feminist movement are a bit complicated. When I say the feminist movement, I just mean my understanding of it( which is extremely lacking). Furthermore I don't even mean feminism itself. I just mean radically feminism as described in the OP. So as far as equal rights and fare wages for woman. I'm all for that. Sorry, didn't word the original properly.

Why shouldn't they preach their world view? You can't possibly know what it's like to be a women in this world and that's what privilege is. Denying that male privilege exists in a way sort of proves that it does exist, the fact that you can't see it. It's the same as any other sort of "privilege", you're not a woman so you can't see the world through a woman's eyes.

If you believe a woman should have equal rights then how exactly do you think that woman should go about trying to achieve that equality? And wouldn't any attempt at trying to gain that equality make the person attempting a feminist?

I've noticed that you seem to have no problems preaching your world view as gospel truth (even though you insist quite tirelessly that you aren't), so why shouldn't others preach theirs? Since you are a man I don't think you are really any sort of authority on what is the "gospel truth" when it comes to living in this world as a woman. What I find off-putting is your lack of awareness of your own biases.

We live in a patriarchal world full of all sorts of different kinds of "privilege", so it's not surprising that feminism would concentrate on these things, since they are a big part of the problem. As a man, I have no trouble seeing this, and I don't find it off-putting at all (putting aside the radical beliefs of some) You can't fix what you can't see. If there weren't people around to point these things out then the world might be a very different place for women today.

Last edited by Nights_Like_These on 21 May 2014, 1:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

The thing is oppression harms everyone men women and children it is simple to point fingers and blame men for everything or women for everything but we all fail to realize the true cause of suffering of the people in the masses are the corrupt, rich greedy elite dictators that run it all who dictate roles and such through the brainwashing of using religion!

Did I say they shouldn't? I said it was off putting and tiresome, which isn't the same thing as telling them to shut up.



Did I make any claim to being able to see the world through a women's eyes? Incidentally, that's a neat Catch-22 you've got there, "denying privilege proves it exists", makes it pretty hard to argue against, which is a handy attribute in a dogma.



It's perfectly possible to argue for and strive towards equal rights without blathering on about privilege, patriarchy, "rape culture", cis-this and gendernormative-that, and all the assorted other baggage that current feminism seems to place so much importance on that either bores or turns off those not in the gender-warrior bubble. You seem to be having some difficulty separating women's rights from feminism, which are not entirely the same thing.



I'm sorry, do I know you? (edit: Now I remember, you're one of the ones who doesn't understand the word 'rational') This is an oddly personal tone to take considering that as far as I know this is the first time we've interacted, and if you're going to fling this kind of accusation around, I must insist that you provide an example of me doing what you claim, otherwise it's just unsubstantiated name calling, and a poor attempt at a tu quoque, which is a logical fallacy even properly executed.



According to who? Is their opinion infallible?



Okay, you've stated your opinion; mine is that modern feminism shoots itself in the foot by focusing on divisive minutia that makes the movement unappealing for large groups of people, men and women both, and causes their actual useful points to get lost in the clutter, which potentially hinders the progress of women's rights in the West. In my opinion, a straightforward campaign focused on equality rather than attempting to enforce the vocabulary of a gender studies course on the world at large would go a lot further towards achieving the goals feminists claim to be striving for, but what would a white, gender-normative cis-male like myself know about politics and marketing?

In short I am sorry I misunderstood and was ignorant and focusing too much on the wrong people and giving blame to those who do not deserve it. Trolling the wrong people etc. Due to certain circumstances it has changed my view on things at a huge cost which i wish i didn't have to deal with but I now do.

Did I say you said they should shut up? Although to be fair, if you're going to tell someone that the things they are saying are tiresome you might as well tell them to shut up too.



Is it dogma to acknowledge that we can't understand where someone with a different life experience is coming from and therefore maybe we shouldn't just automatically dismiss everything they say?



I would have to disagree with this. The things that you say they are "blathering on about" are a problem because people refuse to acknowledge them.



Apparently not, but this is indeed NOT the first time we've interacted, and no I'm not going to go look for the thread so I can link it for you to refresh your memory because to be honest I'd rather not rehash that conversation, which you've clearly forgotten about (or are pretending to have forgotten about to prop yourself up a bit--either way I don't really care lol). Where exactly did I call you a name? I'm speaking only of observations I've made while conversing with you once before and while witnessing other comments you've made on other threads I happened to be reading. You have a rather dismissive way of dealing with other people I've noticed. And no, I'm not going to go looking for those threads either because you will just disagree with my observations as you did the first time I made them known, so there is no point, and to be honest I don't really like conversing with you so I'd hate to start a new conversation about an old one. (edit: I understand 'rational'. You don't understand 'subjectivity'. You also don't seem to understand how not to insult people. It's not so "oddly personal" when you make it personal. This is the last time I'm going to even be baited by anything you have to say because I find you to be a singularly unpleasant person, and I've lost all interest in anything you have to say and I have trouble trying to decide if you actually believe the things you say or if you are just trying to be a jerk and an intellectual bully) (<--Now you can accuse of me of name-calling, but I call it like I see it, you can report me if you so wish).





Of course not, but that doesn't mean their opinion is wrong. Is your opinion infallible?



I'm not really sure what to say about this that I haven't already said, other than, "Congratulations on having an opinion! What would we do without you!" I'd give you a cookie or something, but there doesn't seem to be an emoticon for that on WP, so I guess I'll just use this one instead because it worked so well for you and it pretty much sums up how I feel about your opinion:

And now I will leave the Politics, Philosophy, and Religion section of WP to you and your superior intellect and vulcan logic because it's just so vast that there's no room for empathy, so it's silly of me to hope that you might one day employ it.

Last edited by Nights_Like_These on 21 May 2014, 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

How the hell are we "refusing to acknowledge" women's problems?

1: We've suspended the constitution in Minnesota so that we can punish sex offenders ex post facto.

2: We have lifetime registration for sex offenders.

3: My government spends hundreds of millions every year on women's studies classes.

4: Title IX guarantees that women's sports receive more subsidy than men's sports.



What kind of patriarchal privilege? The privilege to work yourself to death in a coal mine? Where's your empathy, Mr. Sensitive?

Or how about the men working in the Bakken oil field? The paper here keeps reporting on how rowdy they are. Well, maybe they should get some delicate little lady-flowers to go up and drill wells. Their articles make it sound as though these men are locusts, or a cancer, or something, when they're busting their butts fueling the ambulance and the pumper truck at my local fire station. People think that Minnesota has bad weather, but North Dakota is colder in the winter and hotter in the summer. I have a ton of respect for anyone working year round outside up there.

Or were you talking about the "good old boy's club?" Remember that John Kennedy, John Kerry and George H.W. Bush all took spooky-dangerous wartime assignments. That was expected.

What are you claiming with the above post? That evil MRAs are responsible points 1, 2, 3, and 4 earlier?

As for the latter two points, it was a female member of the Kennedy family who gave out copies of "The Greek Way" to cajole the men into going off to war to die for nothing.

By your own "logic," denying that feminists are all man hating lesbians proves that they are. I'm going to use that.

Oh get over it already, in our modern society men are considered expendable and women an asset. just look at our prisons there is like 26 females to 200 men, and its not that woman are any better or worse then men, they just tend to slap them on the wrists and let them go with the excuse that their biological clocks are ticking. society wants those babies, their future voters and tax payers. there is no such thing as equality between the sex's, never was and there never will be.

This again.

Ugh.