Hey Christians, how can you believe in this???

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This is what I have come to understand, you can only debate a Christian on theological grounds, once you bring reason into it they either clam up or simply reject the notion of reason and evidence as not important to their worldview. Which is all well and good until they start trying to influence societies laws, and educational curriculum based upon their faith.

^ This.

I find it abhorrent when religious believers try to suppress knowledge in schools about subjects such as evolution and even go as far as claiming evolution isn't true, just some crackpot scientific theory. I'd expect to see such blatant obfuscation of the truth in fundamentalist Islamic countries but not supposedly educated countries like the USA.

It would be unthinkable here in France where there is a separation between religion and state. Science is taught as is, without any religious pressure groups censoring that knowledge.

Well everyone can believe in what he or she wants to. There are some strange believes out there and I've many strange believes. Some of them are just part of my culture and others is just personal stuff. Since I'm schizotypal, I'm prone to strange believes and am very toe rants towards ppl who believe all kind of stuff. The only thing I don't like is when ppl what me convince to their believe system since I think that what you believe in is always a very personal thing.

Raziel you may have strange beliefs, but unlike the religious, you recognise that these beliefs come from within your own mind, and not from some some super being who created a universe many hundreds of billions of light years across, with over 170 billion galaxies which potentially have 400+ billion stars each (thats in our observable universe) just so it could raise a family on a tiny blue green planet 7.48 light seconds in circumference and then single you out from the 5 billion inhabitants for a one on one intervention.

I noticed your quote from Woody Allen, he really should thank those who try and know the universe, as due to them we now have the general theory of relativity, and satellites, which means he now has GPS and should be able to get around Chinatown far more easily.

Well, if ppl want to believe in that, it's their own right so long they don't force others to believe the same.



Woody Allen was into comedy and I don't think here is the right place to discuss comedians...

To start at the beginning, there's one crucial difference between Jesus and Muhammad. The latter forced his belief system on people, violating Ramadan and massacring thousands of Jews for the simple reason they refused Islam. He died in his bed, cursing both Jews and Christians because he hated them so much. By contrast, Jesus never murdered anyone, never forced anyone to follow Him against their will, and even surrendered His own desires to pay the penalty for us because we couldn't redeem ourselves.

I think one mistake people often make is assuming that freedom equals a total lack of consequences, which isn't true. Following Jesus has an effect just like rejecting Him does. We as people aren't divine, so our freedom's not absolute. Adam & Eve had rules in Eden, and that was before sin entered the world.

It should be obvious to anyone that things like The Inquisition, Witch Trials and DOMA are only justified when practiced by followers of the ONE TRUE RELIGION ?.

^^ No Jesus did not murder anyone, that of course came from his later followers, usurping Judaism and other religious practices, glorifying Pontius Pilot as a saint who had no choice but to have jesus crucified at the hands of the Jews, who conveniently agreed (according to Christian writings some centuries after the events) that this act would not only define and defile them but all their descendants for the rest of eternity. So lets not forget that in their attempts to prove Jesus was the Messiah, Christians have steadfastly vilified all Jews, leading to many millions of deaths. Oh and did anyone mention the Crusades.......

Moviefan it may be impossible to get through to you the fallacious nature of your arguments, but at least by pointing them out it may prevent others from falling into the same morass of nonsense.

Actually, Luther wasn't arguing against all use of reason, just the concept of grasping God by means of reason rather than faith.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqrGjxFhVz8

That would get annoying fast.

What I wonder about all this stuff is, how the heck can God allow 200 million innocent baby birds to be ground up alive in the USA alone. 50 billion land animals, that I doubt the vast majority have committed any capital crimes and have had no hearing or trial, are killed every year by humans. Around a trillion creatures in the seas killed every year also. If I had the ability to stop this shedding of innocent blood, I would. God does, but He doesn't. That's what the Hell I want to know. I want to be His friend, but I want to know why He lets this madness continue. Is it somehow the "ends justifying the means" in some pre-Machiavellian version of that philosophy that God subscribes to, or what could it be that so much death is allowed? I want the murders to cease. I want it to be like Isaiah 11 and 65 describe sooner rather than later.

Someone once observed, "I would ask God how he could allow such terrible things to happen in the world, but I would be afraid that he'd answer with, 'Why do you?'"

I don't to the extent that I'm legally able.

Perhaps. But Dr. King was willing to put aside obedience to the law in order to do the right thing.

I see, baiting to suggest criminal behavior. Nice.

Actually, I wasn't doing any such thing. I'm being quite serious.