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MrGrumpy
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24 Aug 2014, 7:18 pm

starvingartist wrote:
MrGrumpy wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
MrGrumpy wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
i suspect if you were to explain your position more thoroughly we would all be disturbed and disgusted and wish you hadn't

That is the clearest description I have ever read of a closed mind. But you prove my point - too many people find the prospect of open discussion about sex 'disturbing and disgusting' - that is why it takes place in the shadows, and so easily becomes perverted.


"pedophilia and rape are natural and shouldn't be crimes".

Please address such comments to 'Love Not Hate' - I have never said anything of the sort.


what other sex crimes are there, if those weren't the ones you were talking about? bestiality maybe, is that the one you think is due to "natural human urges" and shouldn't be considered a crime? or were you speaking of necrophilia? i'm running out of illegal -philias here.

Sex crimes are sex crimes - my question was 'why are they accorded special treatment?'. The physical effects of sexual assault are no different from the physical effects of any other kind of assault - they are often insignificant, and they usually disappear within a day or three.

The traumatic effects vary enormously from victim to victim, but the same applies to most crimes. Many victims don't even bother to report the crime (unless they need a crime number for insurance purposes, of course)

Offences against children are in a different league altogether, and sometimes the parents are surprisingly careless in allowing their offspring to enter the danger zone.

But, as this thread illustrates, some women seem to have claimed some kind of 'ownership' of the crimes of rape etc, and appear to think that nobody else should be allowed to have a point of view.

But many women enjoy playing the game just as much as men do, and are perfectly happy to 'win some and lose some'.

Getting laid has become a lot more complicated than getting your phone nicked, and it cannot be explained in civilisation's simplistic terms of right and wrong - my thread title was a genuine question - why are sex crimes special?


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starvingartist
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24 Aug 2014, 7:24 pm

MrGrumpy wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
MrGrumpy wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
MrGrumpy wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
i suspect if you were to explain your position more thoroughly we would all be disturbed and disgusted and wish you hadn't

That is the clearest description I have ever read of a closed mind. But you prove my point - too many people find the prospect of open discussion about sex 'disturbing and disgusting' - that is why it takes place in the shadows, and so easily becomes perverted.


"pedophilia and rape are natural and shouldn't be crimes".

Please address such comments to 'Love Not Hate' - I have never said anything of the sort.


what other sex crimes are there, if those weren't the ones you were talking about? bestiality maybe, is that the one you think is due to "natural human urges" and shouldn't be considered a crime? or were you speaking of necrophilia? i'm running out of illegal -philias here.

Sex crimes are sex crimes - my question was 'why are they accorded special treatment?'. The physical effects of sexual assault are no different from the physical effects of any other kind of assault - they are often insignificant, and they usually disappear within a day or three.

The traumatic effects vary enormously from victim to victim, but the same applies to most crimes. Many victims don't even bother to report the crime (unless they need a crime number for insurance purposes, of course)

Offences against children are in a different league altogether, and sometimes the parents are surprisingly careless in allowing their offspring to enter the danger zone.

But, as this thread illustrates, some women seem to have claimed some kind of 'ownership' of the crimes of rape etc, and appear to think that nobody else should be allowed to have a point of view.

But many women enjoy playing the game just as much as men do, and are perfectly happy to 'win some and lose some'.

Getting laid is a lot more complicated than getting your phone nicked, and it cannot be explained in simple terms of right and wrong - my thread title was a genuine question - why are sex crimes special?


just as i suspected--the more you talk, the less i want to know what you're talking about. :eew: :lol: you skeezers are predictable.



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24 Aug 2014, 7:50 pm

De-stigmatising things is usually a bad idea.



Last edited by Stannis on 25 Aug 2014, 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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24 Aug 2014, 9:47 pm

MODERATOR WARNING

I'm letting this stand for now, but, be warned, I'm watching it very closely.

Thanks.


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25 Aug 2014, 4:33 am

OP the issue here is that you have an ASD and are therefore looking at this issue without an emotional perspective. Yes, I quite agree that on the face of it getting bashed up, feeling completely helpless and vulnerable during the ordeal, might, to some, seem at least as bad as getting raped, after all you are being violated and are in fear of your life! Quite clearly though there is more to it, otherwise the majority of victims of sexual abuse would not be affected in the way they are.

For whatever reason the sexual organs are regarded as the most private and intimate parts of a persons body (private parts and intimate parts are after all very common euphemisms for our sexual organs), the accidental revealing, let alone the forced abuse of them, causes extraordinary embarrassment.

One thing we do well as a race is to define and refine our morals, in many societies it was once an offence for a woman to "refuse" her husband and the concept of spousal rape would have raised howls of laughter. That this behaviour was once deemed acceptable does not mean it had no effect upon those who were forced to subserviently offer up their bodies, if nothing else the fact that most, if not all, western countries regard spousal rape as a punishable offence is evidence that any form of rape be it spousal or otherwise leads to a great deal of emotional trauma.

I agree that there are other forms of abuse which are still somewhat acceptable, or go largely unpunished (bullying is my pet hate), But this should not serve as a reason to lessen the emphasis on sexual abuse, rather we should take note of the changes we have made in this area and apply them elsewhere as well


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25 Aug 2014, 8:50 am

I am still having trouble figuring out what in hell the OP is on about. OP, I'm a professional writer and editor, and you're being clear as mud. You've got "why are sex crimes different from any other violent crimes", which only betrays a thorough lack of understanding of emotions surrounding sex; a weird bit about reporting, which shows a complete lack of understanding of social reasons why people do not report sexual assaults; and then something unintelligible about women having some fictional lock on how we deal with sex crimes.

You're going to have to be clearer and more straightforward. You're getting this response to your posts because nobody can make out what you mean. Try using concrete examples.



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25 Aug 2014, 9:22 am

MrGrumpy wrote:
In the past, most of our behaviour was regulated by the requirements of a rigid class structure and the dictatorship of religion. The law was a means of ensuring the preservation of the status quo, and it was easily bypassed by the rich and powerful.

The class structure is now less rigid than previously, and the stranglehold of religion is become increasingly fragmented (the Islamic State is still fighting against the Crusades of 1000 years ago, and needs to grow up).

But the rich and powerful continue to pick and choose about which laws they should obey, and which laws can be usefully ignored.

This attitude stretches from a UK government minister passing on his speeding points to his wife in order to avoid a driving ban, through a systematic abuse by UK members of parliament of the parliamentary expenses system, the creation of sophisticated tax avoidance scams for anybody who can afford the hefty accountancy fees, to the unpunished near-destruction and selfish manipulation of the entire Western economy by its own banking system.

We are also discovering that numbers of rich and powerful people have been routinely engaged in systematic sexual abuse, and that their cronies have been systematically engaged in turning a blind eye, or actively covering their tracks.

Why have there been no investigations of 'historic' parliamentary expenses crime? How are the major banks continuing to stay in business and in some cases making massive profits despite being fined multi-billions of pounds for their criminal business practices?

Why is the pursuit of historical sex allegations apparently limited to a small number of wealthy show-business celebrities?

I am totally in sympathy with the suffering of women, but I don't always understand the difference between the suffering of women and the suffering of the rest of society.

Lots of us have been 'shafted' in one way or another, and we don't always recover. The recent high-profile victims of unproven sexual allegations will probably never recover, either financially or emotionally, from their court-room experiences.

Most crime is clearly wrong, and easily defined. But sex is a uniquely powerful driving force of the human race - it's irresistible, and it needs to be recognised as such. The process of civilisation is doomed if it depends upon the repression of the sexual urges of men and women.

There are many programmes on TV about the pleasures of eating and drinking, and also about the joys of buying a home and lavishing unlimited amounts of energy and money on making it look good. Most of those programmes depend to a large extent upon tempting visual images. But sex is no less essential than food and shelter. So why do we have to resort to pornography to find tempting images? Why, every time I log on to Yahoo to check my emails, is there another story about some female celebrity's 'wardrobe failure'?



Awful title and really hamfisted wording. You're saying that an investigation should have been conducted innto the expenses and banker scandal BLOODY SAY THAT THEN why bring sex crime into the debate


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26 Aug 2014, 3:00 am

MrGrumpy wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
MrGrumpy wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
MrGrumpy wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
i suspect if you were to explain your position more thoroughly we would all be disturbed and disgusted and wish you hadn't

That is the clearest description I have ever read of a closed mind. But you prove my point - too many people find the prospect of open discussion about sex 'disturbing and disgusting' - that is why it takes place in the shadows, and so easily becomes perverted.


"pedophilia and rape are natural and shouldn't be crimes".

Please address such comments to 'Love Not Hate' - I have never said anything of the sort.


what other sex crimes are there, if those weren't the ones you were talking about? bestiality maybe, is that the one you think is due to "natural human urges" and shouldn't be considered a crime? or were you speaking of necrophilia? i'm running out of illegal -philias here.

Sex crimes are sex crimes - my question was 'why are they accorded special treatment?'. The physical effects of sexual assault are no different from the physical effects of any other kind of assault - they are often insignificant, and they usually disappear within a day or three.

The traumatic effects vary enormously from victim to victim, but the same applies to most crimes. Many victims don't even bother to report the crime (unless they need a crime number for insurance purposes, of course)

Offences against children are in a different league altogether, and sometimes the parents are surprisingly careless in allowing their offspring to enter the danger zone.

But, as this thread illustrates, some women seem to have claimed some kind of 'ownership' of the crimes of rape etc, and appear to think that nobody else should be allowed to have a point of view.

But many women enjoy playing the game just as much as men do, and are perfectly happy to 'win some and lose some'.

Getting laid has become a lot more complicated than getting your phone nicked, and it cannot be explained in civilisation's simplistic terms of right and wrong - my thread title was a genuine question - why are sex crimes special?


I'm pretty certain there are no women who enjoy being raped, or who see it as a game. And as far as victims of sex crimes are concerned, it's wrong to put the blame on the victim of any crime. And how are parents ever responsible for their children being molested? It's always the sex offender who's in the wrong, because the offender has made the choice to victimize another human being. The victim never chooses to be a victim.


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MrGrumpy
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26 Aug 2014, 10:06 am

Many thanks for some considered replies - I had expected more of the 'if you don't agree with me, then you must be a pervert' sort of response.

I think that sexual behaviour, like sexuality itself, covers a wide spectrum (just like Autism does...).

At one end, there is simple flirting and shagging, and at the other end there is assault and rape.

But in between there is an enormous variety of normal behaviour, and there is no universally accepted understanding of where the danger zone begins - I would go further and say that many people (men and women alike) get sexual satisfaction from pushing themselves to some kind of imaginary limit. The problems arise when the parties involved do not recognise the same limit.

Sex is a very confusing part of the move away from purely animal behaviour, and the rules of civilisation have not yet come up with a solution.


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26 Aug 2014, 10:13 am

MrGrumpy wrote:
Many thanks for some considered replies - I had expected more of the 'if you don't agree with me, then you must be a pervert' sort of response.

I think that sexual behaviour, like sexuality itself, covers a wide spectrum (just like Autism does...).

At one end, there is simple flirting and shagging, and at the other end there is assault and rape.

But in between there is an enormous variety of normal behaviour, and there is no universally accepted understanding of where the danger zone begins - I would go further and say that many people (men and women alike) get sexual satisfaction from pushing themselves to some kind of imaginary limit. The problems arise when the parties involved do not recognise the same limit.

Sex is a very confusing part of the move away from purely animal behaviour, and the rules of civilisation have not yet come up with a solution.



seems real simple to me. Consent and the mental capacity to give consent are the only rules. If I were sober i'd consider hitting on drunk chicks rape for example. Im in a minority there but im simply being consistent with the above universally acknowledged rule



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26 Aug 2014, 10:46 am

Some years ago, I found myself alone with a lady who was seriously into pain. She told me to hit her as hard as possible, and that she would say 'Orange' when she had had enough. How weird is that?

Unfortunately, I was unable to satisfy her needs, and she accused me of being a wimp...


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26 Aug 2014, 11:12 am

MrGrumpy wrote:
Some years ago, I found myself alone with a lady who was seriously into pain. She told me to hit her as hard as possible, and that she would say 'Orange' when she had had enough. How weird is that?

Cluster headache?



MrGrumpy
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26 Aug 2014, 11:29 am

Humanaut wrote:
MrGrumpy wrote:
Some years ago, I found myself alone with a lady who was seriously into pain. She told me to hit her as hard as possible, and that she would say 'Orange' when she had had enough. How weird is that?

Cluster headache?

Maybe 'Orange' was just the name of her phone provider...


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26 Aug 2014, 12:30 pm

Oh, I probably misunderstood.



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26 Aug 2014, 12:59 pm

MrGrumpy wrote:
Some years ago, I found myself alone with a lady who was seriously into pain. She told me to hit her as hard as possible, and that she would say 'Orange' when she had had enough. How weird is that?

Unfortunately, I was unable to satisfy her needs, and she accused me of being a wimp...


But even so, striking this rather strange woman was a matter of consent. There's a world of difference between fulfilling her demands, and just hitting a woman out of the blue assuming it will give her a sexual thrill. Just as there is actually little or no middle ground between harmless flirting and unwanted sexual advances - or outright sexual assault.


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26 Aug 2014, 1:17 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
there is actually little or no middle ground between harmless flirting and unwanted sexual advances - or outright sexual assault

I disagree - there is a huge amount of middle ground between the areas of human behaviour which you describe.


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