Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?

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Fnord
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29 Nov 2014, 10:09 pm

slenkar wrote:

Fnord wrote:

slenkar wrote:

We were made...

Evidence, please?

we are the only animal to have religion. Every country has a religion (or used to). going to religious ceremonies does affect us positively

If you think that your reply is evidence, then you understand neither the concept of evidence nor the concept of religion.

Religion is not evidence; it is instead a human construct, invented in ignorance and nurtured in denial.

aghogday
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29 Nov 2014, 10:53 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:

aghogday wrote:

Well, if this was all there was to Gnostic Christian ways of belief I would agree whole heartedly as it is fair enough as you describe it here, but there are parts of it that some Gnostic Christians believe, like sex is evil, and in general that the spiritual human is disconnected from an evil flesh and blood existence that is beyond any common sense of the GOD of Mother Nature True, which I personally know is All That Is and not just this part or that part over there....

Not accepting reality the way it is and looking for something else but the way it is, is well, a pipe dream at best.

However, the reality Culture presents of Mother Nature True aka GOD too, and human nature is often illusion and not much to do with either Mother Nature True or Human Nature.

For example, sitting in front of a box at least 8 hours a day, and not moving substantially and focusing on one point a couple feet away.

Sheer insanity is what that is per Human and Mother Nature True.

But culture says do it, and the 'zombies' and or 'robots' do comply, sad as that is the truth now in society for many folks now.

And some of the Christian Gnostics say sex is evil and some folks 'foolishly' refrain from Masturbation while Monkeys continue to listen to GOD aka Mother Nature True and just do what feels good as that is how GOD truly works, when people truly listen to The Real GOD aka Mother Nature True.....:)

And then some folks with the disease of addiction do it too much by way of Pornography, but intermittent gratification and balance is the way of GOD, not this instant gratification crap, that eventually can make people wet noodles, in true effect.

But anyway, from the parts of Gnostic Christianity you highlight above, it is much more balanced with Mother Nature True aka GOD too, than what most modern Christians practice against UNCONDITIONAL LOVE, instead of for it, per Anti-Christ ways.

All that thinking is outdated friend.

We have evolved in the last 2,000 years and so has God.

Let me give you an update on evil matter and sex.

Modern Gnostic Christian views on evil matter. It is not evil.

Matter is evolving perfection.

Most ancient Gnostic Christians had their myths showing that matter was evil. They saw suffering all around them and they could not explain that evil without thinking that the God of this evil matter and world, the demiurge, had created imperfections.

Please remember that we do not literally believe our myths and we just use them as a tool to be internalized to activate what Jesus called our single eye.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

Remember as well the Gnostic Christian mind set of thinking that Christianity, Catholicism and Islam are all immoral branches of the an original Catholic religion whose remnants were named Gnostic Christians.

Remember as well that it is said of Gnostic Christian versus Christian reading practices.
“Both read the Bible day and night; but you read black where I read white.”
William Blake.

Remember as well that Christianity still sees the world as cursed by God while modern Gnostic Christians have evolved our view of matter to thinking that a good God or nature would have thought of it. As evolving perfection.

-----------------------------

Compare Christian literal beliefs --

Genesis 3;17 And unto Adam He said: 'Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying: Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.

To what modern Gnostic Christian believe --

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

This means that we all live in the best of all possible world and that is why we call what we have around us, --- evolving perfection. Be you a believer or not, the notion that things cannot be other than what they are is irrefutable.

http://www.entropylaw.com/

Regards
DL

Some people who call themselves Gnostic Christians in our modern day, still identify with the way it was practiced in earlier history.

I have no problem with what you believe here and it sounds reasonable to me.

Thanks for the clarification that you do NOT believe in the older ways of Gnostic Christianity that some folks do still identify with, as that is there prerogative, of course. :)

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aghogday
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29 Nov 2014, 11:05 pm

Narrator wrote:

aghogday wrote:

^^^
Hmm, suggesting that there is no place for Witchcraft and or Religion per a belief in GOD in the world as it is only human construct is not much different than suggesting there is no place for scary movies as they are only human constructs and have no real life consequences.

A good fantasy is fun to visit, but you don't go and live it.

Having spent 35+ years as a born-again Christian, when I came out of it I chose not to be a reactionary, tossing out religion the way so many ex-religious people do. I allowed for each person to have their own journey, without me crapping all over it.

But the more I thought about how my own life had been affected by religion, the more it bothered me. I had strong faith, and I made many choices based on those beliefs: on what/who was compatible, fearing that doubt and rational thought could jeopardize my place in heaven, the inner conflict of the sins that I liked (premarital sex is a good example). I have the integrity of my own beliefs now, which used to be in conflict with my religion. If I had never been a Christian, I could have been more whole because of that integrity. This paragraph is just one among many reasons why I now see religion as a negative, whose only use is for people who need someone else to do the thinking for them. (That's not a comment on thinking people who are religious, but on the value I see in religion.)

We like to spark children's imaginations with stories of Santa Claus, but children are allowed to grow up, knowing that the naughty and nice list was a construct to make children behave.

As for spirituality, that is a different thing. I believe in spirituality, not as a transcending thing, but as an innate part of our health and well-being. We see it in our dreams and our creativity. We can nurture it through reflection and mindfulness. It is like the inner self of Jung, with archetypes and other things which have evolved in the recesses of our brains. Some insist it is the soul, only because it is elusive to science. But like demon possession, the idea of the soul is a construct from our early ignorance.

I wasn't going to be the wet blanket on other people's religious choices. But over time I have watched how people throw away precious years, just as I did. Placebo or not, I would rather live the truth than a fairytale, especially for my own integrity. Don't get me wrong, I really do enjoy getting lost in a good fantasy story. But I know it's just a nice diversion. I won't go and live it as reality.

Thanks for the clarification on your beliefs and it all sounds reasonable to me but please do keep in mind that the placebo and nocebo effect/affect are no fantasy and a real scientific phenomenon that have real life effect and affect on human beings who can take advantage of this real valuable attribute and potential pitfall in life.

People do not need a name for GOD or a religion to get the benefit of Placebo or deleterious impact of Nocebo, of course, but never the less science shows it works in both positive and negative ways, for those who CAN take advantage of it, as science shows it just does not work for some folks, depending on innate and environmental factors.

People who use WHATEVER abstract construct to arrive at the positive results GET THE RESULTS AND that is the bottom line that counts in REAL LIFE FOR for those who so choose AND CAN to take advantage of it. But of course in our modern day per church and state separation, it's no longer a requirement to GET THE benefit or deleterious impact per literal human heaven or hell in THAT so-called religious way of arriving at the positive or negative real life consequences of belief that is positive or negative.

NOT a big deal if it doesn't help or hurt, but a potential game changer in life if it does.

And again science shows that not all human beings can either take advantage or disadvantage of Placebo or Nocebo, respectively, as such.

And this could be part of the reason some folks are religious and some folks are not, as REAL LIFE results are results that matter, particularly when positive or negative per positive or negative beliefs. :)

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GnosticBishop
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30 Nov 2014, 9:34 am

Narrator wrote:

Whether Gnostic or any other brand of Christianity... whether any brand of god-belief at all... it's all a human construct and has no more place in this world than belief in witchcraft once did.

I disagree on sociological grounds.

Man is a tribal creature and will have his tribe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T64_El2s7FU

I promote a non-misogynist religion for those who need a tribe.

To keep our mainstream backward thinking religions without demanding that they catch up to non-supernatural and moral thinking is also what I promote.

Regards
DL

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30 Nov 2014, 9:49 am

LoveforLoki wrote:

I have quite a bit, there is some great literature out there on Gnosticism.

Some books I enjoy are:

The Gnostics by: Jacques Lacarriere
The Nag Hammandi Scriptures

The path I follow is from a Chaos-Gnostic perspective.

That takes belief in the supernatural and literal reading of myths. Right?

Regards
DL

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30 Nov 2014, 9:57 am

sacrip wrote:

I consider myself a gnostic christian, and I'm glad to know there are other aspie G.C's out there. As a group, it's a bit lonely.

Though I have no hatred for orthodox Christianity. Yes, I disagree with their interpretation of Christ and mourn the oppression of the early gnostics, let's be honest: If we were in power, we would have done the same to them. And gnosticism doesn't lend itself to proselytizing, so we'd have been beaten down ourselves. No, I think history played out the way it had to.

Not enough of us come out but there are quite a few of us who are not sheep.

Not that name themselves Gnostic Christian but you can spot one any time a believer's morals are questioned. The questioner is likely a Gnostic Christian.

Morals are our focus and Christianity, with their immoral creed is an easy target. That is why they hated us my friend. We made them think and their hierarchy does not allow for thinking.

You show your good heart by not hating them but to not hate their morals would make you less than a Gnostic Christian.

For the evils of religion to grow, read any scripture literally.

Any and all harmless beliefs are allowed by Gnostic Christians. We know that any myth can be internalized for good results and as esoteric ecumenists, we enjoy knowledge of all the myths that man has created about Gods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02cia ... =PLCBF574D

When there is a victim is when that view changes. Then you see why Christianity annihilated Gnostic Christianity. We do not let the evils of forced literalism go unopposed. To a tyrant like Constantine, we were poison. One of his first commands to his new Church was to kill off the free thinkers and of course, his new tool, his Church, did as bid. It was quite a ride for free thought for the next 1,000 years.

How can a Gnostic Christian, --- and any other free thinking moral person, --- not judge other's morals when seeing someone hurt other because of the same Church's teachings today?

Can you ignore such things if you have decent morals? Impossible. Especially with Islam pulling the same murderous, freedom stifling ****.

We must discriminate and judge constantly. Every law is a compulsion on all of us to judge.

It is my view that all right wing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists, --- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parent religions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and the right wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks. Their God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2zhlDbMfDg

They also do much harm to their own fellow adherents.

African witches and Jesus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXriVI

Jesus Camp 1of 3
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=48b_1185215493

Death to Gays.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyuKLyGUHNE

For evil to grow my friend, all good people need do is nothing. Fight literalism when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02cia ... =PLCBF574D

The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus, in the esoteric sense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. Becoming a God is to become more fully human.

Regards
DL

Last edited by GnosticBishop on 30 Nov 2014, 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

GnosticBishop
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30 Nov 2014, 10:04 am

slenkar wrote:

We were made to worship something. Atheists worship other things via addictions.

Gnosticism sounds pretty good. Christianity is good for society.

We had prayer in my middle school and I think it did a lot of good.

You are correct in that we are programmed to find an ideal that believers will call God and non-believers will call someone else a title.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ1PDxeUynA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_complex

As to Christianity.

See the post above for their goodness and look below to see what their creed is built on, --- in moral terms, --- and come back with an argument showing it to be good justice to punish the innocent instead of the guilty.

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

Jesus said to pick up your cross and follow him but I see that you have taken the line that someone else should pay your dues. Quite manly and moral that. Not.

Do you really think someone else can pay your dues and allow you to shirk your just reward?

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

As above so below.

If you had God's power, would you not be able to find a way that does not go against the wisdom of Jesus and the bible?

Perhaps like being man enough to step up to your own demands for a worthy sacrifice?

That is what a good God would do.

Regards
DL

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30 Nov 2014, 10:12 am

aghogday wrote:

GnosticBishop wrote:

aghogday wrote:

And then some folks with the disease of addiction do it too much by way of Pornography, but intermittent gratification and balance is the way of GOD, not this instant gratification crap, that eventually can make people wet noodles, in true effect.

But anyway, from the parts of Gnostic Christianity you highlight above, it is much more balanced with Mother Nature True aka GOD too, than what most modern Christians practice against UNCONDITIONAL LOVE, instead of for it, per Anti-Christ ways.

Thanks.

It is their choice for sure and as long as no harm is caused, we have no argument.

As I show in the post above, if we do not actively denounce the religious practices that do do harm, then we would show ourselves to be even less that their ignorant ones who may not know better thanks to their religious indoctrination.

Regards
DL

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30 Nov 2014, 10:16 am

trollcatman wrote:

slenkar wrote:

Fnord wrote:

slenkar wrote:

We were made...

Evidence, please?

we are the only animal to have religion. Every country has a religion (or used to)

going to religious ceremonies does affect us positively

Then why are the most religious countries usually horrible places? In many places in the Middle-east and Africa they are far more religious than in first world countries. It hasn't helped them much it seems, or maybe their gods are testing them?

You forgot to include the U.S which touts itself as a Christian nation yet has the worst jail statistics than most other countries that are religious or not.

Regards
DL

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30 Nov 2014, 4:01 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:

slenkar wrote:

I said 'Gnosticism sounds pretty good.' so you are being a bit defensive here

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30 Nov 2014, 4:34 pm

slenkar wrote:

GnosticBishop wrote:

slenkar wrote:

I said 'Gnosticism sounds pretty good.' so you are being a bit defensive here

Not at all. I showed a major theological difference between what Gnostic Christians think like as compared to Christians.

My tone is likely because I am French and we always sound more, (in your face), than most when we wright English.

Regards
DL

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01 Dec 2014, 1:09 am

@Gnostic Bishop.. per your last comment to me above.. yes.. per your definition of Gnostic Christianity i could be considered one and same...

And yes.. per just tonight.. while reading in a book store in a similar style of TAI CHI dance while listening to music..all at the same time..a fundamentalist John 3:16 pushing guy who believes that Jesus is the ONLY SON OF GOD OR YOU ARE GOING TO HELL and dance is the way of the 'DEVIL' TOO.. attempted to FORCE THAT ON ME..

And i unleashed the righteous indignation of so many thousands of people who have died at the 'Sword of Constantine' for insisting that we are are all sons and daughters of GOD and Jesus was NOT SUGGESTING he was the ONLY SON OF GOD.

SO YEAH..

i'm on board with that...

TRUST ME.. THEY DON'T WANT TO LOOK INTO MY EYES.. when they ARE LIT UP WITH RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION..

THE guy suggested i was the DEVIL INCARNATE WHEN i took my shades off and showed him those eyes of righteous indignation..:)

HE WILL NEVER FORGET.. ME.. i kid you not... :)

The power is within.. AND UNMISTAKABLE FOR THOSE WHO 'SEE' 'IT'.

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01 Dec 2014, 1:39 am

GnosticBishop wrote:

Narrator wrote:

Whether Gnostic or any other brand of Christianity... whether any brand of god-belief at all... it's all a human construct and has no more place in this world than belief in witchcraft once did.

To some degree, I have to agree with you. Except that we are tribal in a similar way to the creatures we evolved from. (The Bonobo monkeys are a great example.) The trouble with human tribalism is that, to influence the tribe, fantasies have been invented about good vs evil, afterlife and various demons. We're more sophisticated creatures, so our tribalism will reflect that, but it also leaves us open to superstitious nonsense that Bonobos and Neanderthals would never dreamed of. (Then again, maybe Neanderthals had some superstitions too.

)

I would love to be part of a functional, non-superstitious tribe. But then again, my Asperger's would be in conflict with that. I guess that's why I love the Internet.. lol

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01 Dec 2014, 11:38 am

aghogday wrote:

HE WILL NEVER FORGET.. ME.. i kid you not...

The power is within.. AND UNMISTAKABLE FOR THOSE WHO 'SEE' 'IT'.

Thanks for this. I agree and mine goes to my whole face.

Have you seen or developed a creed?

I have found this but do not agree with all the points. I do agree with 1 and 2.

http://www.thesongofgod.com/tgc/basic_beliefs.html

Regards
DL

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01 Dec 2014, 11:39 am

aghogday wrote:

HE WILL NEVER FORGET.. ME.. i kid you not...

The power is within.. AND UNMISTAKABLE FOR THOSE WHO 'SEE' 'IT'.

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01 Dec 2014, 11:44 am

Narrator wrote:

GnosticBishop wrote:

Narrator wrote:

Whether Gnostic or any other brand of Christianity... whether any brand of god-belief at all... it's all a human construct and has no more place in this world than belief in witchcraft once did.

)

I would love to be part of a functional, non-superstitious tribe. But then again, my Asperger's would be in conflict with that. I guess that's why I love the Internet.. lol

Your social interaction and judgement seems to work ok so I would question whoever diagnosed you and look for another opinion.

Regards
DL

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