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Je Suis NON Charlie

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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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11 Jan 2015, 12:32 pm

thomas81 wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I can understand the sentiment terrorism affects us all non of us are safe but I would not buy ANY publication unless I saw something I liked. That's number one for me.


Another thing disturbs me - we have had terrorist attacks for years and years and years sooooo many people died of every race and creed yet barely a belch now that these people were attacked at this magazine, thousands, maybe millions are marching and demonstrating. WHERE WERE THEY YEARS AND YEARS AGO WHEN PEOPLE WERE DYING???? Why is it it take something like this and not the others to get them to realize terrorisms sucks, it's a problem, people die, we should be demonstrating??? We should demand the terrorists be eradicated from our society not moan about how much we hate regulation???


Well, an issue there is 'terrorist' is such a weasel word. If by terrorist you mean any body or country that uses violence in order to satisfy political ends, then by the same logic some of our own governments are the worst terrorists in existence.

Explain to me why an american drone targeting a wedding party in afghanistan is any better than a group of rogue islamists shooting up a newspaper office in Paris?


I am not buying that excuse. If you are a religious fanatic who has lost the capacity to be civil and to think, if you believe the whole world should be under Sharia Law, you don't belong in the west. You belong in one of the countries that will embrace you, an Islamic one that is already under it but you do not belong here. If you want to live with us, you MUST accept a pittance of our customs and laws otherwise you don't belong in our society. That's life. Deal with it.

And I see Muslim women all the time where I live, dressed pretty much in black burqas, it is not an uncommon sight to see them shopping here so I am not ignorant and living in a place void of Islam. This way of practicing religion I am not referring to. I am talking about the fanatics who believe they must inflict pain in the west and they must make all of us go by their laws in our country.



thomas81
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11 Jan 2015, 12:38 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

I am not buying that excuse. If you are a religious fanatic who has lost the capacity to be civil and to think, if you believe the whole world should be under Sharia Law, you don't belong in the west. You belong in one of the countries that will embrace you, an Islamic one that is already under it but you do not belong here. If you want to live with us, you MUST accept a pittance of our customs and laws otherwise you don't belong in our society. That's life. Deal with it.


Well, come back to me with a better definition of 'terrorism' and then we will talk.

Right now, the only common denominator i am seeing between violent attacks that get labelled 'terrorist' by the usual suspects in the hawk media is 'violence that cant be controlled by western interests'. Thats hardly a qualitively moral definition.

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
And I see Muslim women all the time where I live, dressed pretty much in black burqas, it is not an uncommon sight to see them shopping here so I am not ignorant and living in a place void of Islam. This way of practicing religion I am not referring to. I am talking about the fanatics who believe they must inflict pain in the west and they must make all of us go by their laws in our country.


I find it funny how western anti islam types suddenly discover a love for womens rights and feminism when in the context of the west, they are usually first to decry claims by women that they still recieve unfair terms, unequal pay and objectification by the media. Sort out your own houses first, perhaps?


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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11 Jan 2015, 12:40 pm

thomas81 wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

I am not buying that excuse. If you are a religious fanatic who has lost the capacity to be civil and to think, if you believe the whole world should be under Sharia Law, you don't belong in the west. You belong in one of the countries that will embrace you, an Islamic one that is already under it but you do not belong here. If you want to live with us, you MUST accept a pittance of our customs and laws otherwise you don't belong in our society. That's life. Deal with it.


Well, come back to me with a better definition of 'terrorism' and then we will talk.

Right now, the only common denominator i am seeing between violent attacks that get labelled 'terrorist' by the usual suspects in the hawk media is 'violence that cant be controlled by western interests'. Thats hardly a qualitively moral definition.

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
And I see Muslim women all the time where I live, dressed pretty much in black burqas, it is not an uncommon sight to see them shopping here so I am not ignorant and living in a place void of Islam. This way of practicing religion I am not referring to. I am talking about the fanatics who believe they must inflict pain in the west and they must make all of us go by their laws in our country.


I find it funny how anti islam types suddenly discover a love for womens rights and feminism when in the context of the west, they are usually first to decry claims by women that they still recieve unfair terms, unequal pay and objectification by the media. Sort out your own houses first, perhaps?



Yeah we are gonna sort our own house by keeping the terrorist out and I would encourage all of Europe to adopt Homeland Security type measures that will not punish Muslims but will keep out the fanatics who only look for an opportunity to murder or destroy property.

And as far as muslim women in western countries YES they have the right to dress how they want and if they choose to dress the way they do, it's their business. It's called FREEDOM.

And you do realize, one of the saddest things of all, because of types like these in France and others around the world, these women who just go about their daily lives without bothering anyone are suddenly going to face possible harassment and paranoia from others only because they dress as muslim women? THAT is the result of these fanatics. They only hurt people.



Last edited by ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo on 11 Jan 2015, 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Adamantium
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11 Jan 2015, 12:43 pm

I meant to say Will Self is an ignorant idiot. Sorry for leaving out the "ignorant" part!

When he says they should be making cartoons about their politicians and the police state, he shows his almost total lack of familiarity with their work... sad, really.



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11 Jan 2015, 12:46 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

I am not buying that excuse. If you are a religious fanatic who has lost the capacity to be civil and to think, if you believe the whole world should be under Sharia Law, you don't belong in the west. You belong in one of the countries that will embrace you, an Islamic one that is already under it but you do not belong here. If you want to live with us, you MUST accept a pittance of our customs and laws otherwise you don't belong in our society. That's life. Deal with it.


Well, come back to me with a better definition of 'terrorism' and then we will talk.

Right now, the only common denominator i am seeing between violent attacks that get labelled 'terrorist' by the usual suspects in the hawk media is 'violence that cant be controlled by western interests'. Thats hardly a qualitively moral definition.

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
And I see Muslim women all the time where I live, dressed pretty much in black burqas, it is not an uncommon sight to see them shopping here so I am not ignorant and living in a place void of Islam. This way of practicing religion I am not referring to. I am talking about the fanatics who believe they must inflict pain in the west and they must make all of us go by their laws in our country.


I find it funny how anti islam types suddenly discover a love for womens rights and feminism when in the context of the west, they are usually first to decry claims by women that they still recieve unfair terms, unequal pay and objectification by the media. Sort out your own houses first, perhaps?



Yeah we are gonna sort our own house by keeping the terrorist out and I would encourage all of Europe to adopt Homeland Security type measures that will not punish Muslims but will keep out the fanatics who only look for an opportunity to murder or destroy property.

And as far as muslim women in western countries YES they have the right to dress how they want and if they choose to dress the way they do, it's their business. It's called FREEDOM.



Oh yes 'muh FREEDOM' 'muh precious FREEDOMS'

Tell me, where are our freedoms, with our increased security culture, being harangued for hours on end at airports and not being able to navigate daily life without being stopped by security services at one point or another? Wheres the freedom in the United States when the moral standards of government is eroded to include torture as a legitimate means of collecting information? What about the patriot act? Or the erosion of access to the internet through various SOPA-esque legislation which the US seems all to keen to implement?


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11 Jan 2015, 12:50 pm

Adamantium wrote:
I meant to say Will Self is an ignorant idiot. Sorry for leaving out the "ignorant" part!

When he says they should be making cartoons about their politicians and the police state, he shows his almost total lack of familiarity with their work... sad, really.

Well he is correct, because media and government interests are in cahoots with each other to distract the French public from THEIR incompetencies.

Islam makes a perfect diversion.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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11 Jan 2015, 12:53 pm

thomas81 wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

I am not buying that excuse. If you are a religious fanatic who has lost the capacity to be civil and to think, if you believe the whole world should be under Sharia Law, you don't belong in the west. You belong in one of the countries that will embrace you, an Islamic one that is already under it but you do not belong here. If you want to live with us, you MUST accept a pittance of our customs and laws otherwise you don't belong in our society. That's life. Deal with it.


Well, come back to me with a better definition of 'terrorism' and then we will talk.

Right now, the only common denominator i am seeing between violent attacks that get labelled 'terrorist' by the usual suspects in the hawk media is 'violence that cant be controlled by western interests'. Thats hardly a qualitively moral definition.

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
And I see Muslim women all the time where I live, dressed pretty much in black burqas, it is not an uncommon sight to see them shopping here so I am not ignorant and living in a place void of Islam. This way of practicing religion I am not referring to. I am talking about the fanatics who believe they must inflict pain in the west and they must make all of us go by their laws in our country.


I find it funny how anti islam types suddenly discover a love for womens rights and feminism when in the context of the west, they are usually first to decry claims by women that they still recieve unfair terms, unequal pay and objectification by the media. Sort out your own houses first, perhaps?



Yeah we are gonna sort our own house by keeping the terrorist out and I would encourage all of Europe to adopt Homeland Security type measures that will not punish Muslims but will keep out the fanatics who only look for an opportunity to murder or destroy property.

And as far as muslim women in western countries YES they have the right to dress how they want and if they choose to dress the way they do, it's their business. It's called FREEDOM.



Oh yes 'muh FREEDOM' 'muh precious FREEDOMS'

Tell me, where are our freedoms, with our increased security culture, being harangued for hours on end at airports and not being able to navigate daily life without being stopped by security services at one point or another? Wheres the freedom in the United States when the moral standards of government is eroded to include torture as a legitimate means of collecting information? What about the patriot act? Or the erosion of access to the internet through various SOPA-esque legislation which the US seems all to keen to implement?

Now you are just being incredibly ironic. We are protecting freedom from people who do not want us to have any. It is a bit of a paradox but a necessary one none the less. You do realize, you could be caught up in an attack? Are you that miserable that you are indifferent to such possibilities? Do you have undiagnosed depression? Value your existence, man. It's the most precious thing you have. It's the most precious thing we all have. You are incredibly blessed and lucky just to be able to think. It's the rarest gift the universe has to offer and when you piss all over life, you are doing an incredible harm. The entire universe weeps.



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11 Jan 2015, 12:58 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
I meant to say Will Self is an ignorant idiot. Sorry for leaving out the "ignorant" part!

When he says they should be making cartoons about their politicians and the police state, he shows his almost total lack of familiarity with their work... sad, really.

Well he is correct, because media and government interests are in cahoots with each other to distract the French public from THEIR incompetencies.

Islam makes a perfect diversion.

When you say "the media" what are the dimensions of that thing?

Charlie Hebdo was constantly drawing attention to the incompetencies of French politicians, mostly of the right and far right, but also of the establishment left, like Fracois Hollande.

Maybe Self is a stooge of the academic/critical establishment, trying to udermine the work of cultural activists and thereby prop up the military industrial complex?



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11 Jan 2015, 1:11 pm

Adamantium wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
I meant to say Will Self is an ignorant idiot. Sorry for leaving out the "ignorant" part!

When he says they should be making cartoons about their politicians and the police state, he shows his almost total lack of familiarity with their work... sad, really.

Well he is correct, because media and government interests are in cahoots with each other to distract the French public from THEIR incompetencies.

Islam makes a perfect diversion.

When you say "the media" what are the dimensions of that thing?

Charlie Hebdo was constantly drawing attention to the incompetencies of French politicians, mostly of the right and far right, but also of the establishment left, like Fracois Hollande.

Maybe Self is a stooge of the academic/critical establishment, trying to udermine the work of cultural activists and thereby prop up the military industrial complex?


I am less au fait with Charlie Hesbo and the French media in general (what i do know it tends to be far ruder and coarser in its content when it sets out to be). However here in the British isles, the gutter press papers esp. The Sun are established hack papers and go out of their way to attack immigration, especially Islamic immigration when and how they can.

The murdochian media with its uniform political interests, has grown to the state of ubiquity.


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11 Jan 2015, 1:29 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
I meant to say Will Self is an ignorant idiot. Sorry for leaving out the "ignorant" part!

When he says they should be making cartoons about their politicians and the police state, he shows his almost total lack of familiarity with their work... sad, really.

Well he is correct, because media and government interests are in cahoots with each other to distract the French public from THEIR incompetencies.

Islam makes a perfect diversion.

When you say "the media" what are the dimensions of that thing?

Charlie Hebdo was constantly drawing attention to the incompetencies of French politicians, mostly of the right and far right, but also of the establishment left, like Fracois Hollande.

Maybe Self is a stooge of the academic/critical establishment, trying to udermine the work of cultural activists and thereby prop up the military industrial complex?


I am less au fait with Charlie Hesbo and the French media in general (what i do know it tends to be far ruder and coarser in its content when it sets out to be). However here in the British isles, the gutter press papers esp. The Sun are established hack papers and go out of their way to attack immigration, especially Islamic immigration when and how they can.


if there were a polar opposite to Charlie Hebdo it would be somewhere between the Sun/Star and the neonazi fanzines. A lot of these guys were on the barricades in '68. If Charlie Hebdo had been in England, the Sun/Star/New of the World and UKIP would have been their constant targets, along with the Tories, Lib-Dems and Labour (particularly when Labour was in power.)



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11 Jan 2015, 1:29 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
I meant to say Will Self is an ignorant idiot. Sorry for leaving out the "ignorant" part!

When he says they should be making cartoons about their politicians and the police state, he shows his almost total lack of familiarity with their work... sad, really.

Well he is correct, because media and government interests are in cahoots with each other to distract the French public from THEIR incompetencies.

Islam makes a perfect diversion.

When you say "the media" what are the dimensions of that thing?

Charlie Hebdo was constantly drawing attention to the incompetencies of French politicians, mostly of the right and far right, but also of the establishment left, like Fracois Hollande.

Maybe Self is a stooge of the academic/critical establishment, trying to udermine the work of cultural activists and thereby prop up the military industrial complex?


I am less au fait with Charlie Hesbo and the French media in general (what i do know it tends to be far ruder and coarser in its content when it sets out to be). However here in the British isles, the gutter press papers esp. The Sun are established hack papers and go out of their way to attack immigration, especially Islamic immigration when and how they can.


if there were a polar opposite to Charlie Hebdo it would be somewhere between the Sun/Star and the neonazi fanzines. A lot of these guys were on the barricades in '68. If Charlie Hebdo had been in England, the Sun/Star/New of the World and UKIP would have been their constant targets, along with the Tories, Lib-Dems and Labour (particularly when Labour was in power.)



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11 Jan 2015, 1:30 pm

Edit: double post


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Last edited by thomas81 on 11 Jan 2015, 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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11 Jan 2015, 1:31 pm

Also, this V

click


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11 Jan 2015, 1:41 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Also, this V

click


That's a good piece. He doesn't make the stupid mistake of confusing the work of the Charlie Hebdo people with the uses to which their murders are being put by the Murdochian crowd. Le Pen was one of the most frequent targets of Hebdo, but that didn't stop the Front National people from wanting in on the "Je Suis Charlie" moment.

This is disgusting, however predictable, but it doesn't somehow transform Charb or Honore or Cabu into right wing tools.



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11 Jan 2015, 1:47 pm

Adamantium wrote:
but that didn't stop the Front National people from wanting in on the "Je Suis Charlie" moment.

You're sure? Marine's daddy was one of the first to say that he wasn't Charlie ...

If they jumped on that train, I'd be very careful ... wolfs in sheep clothing


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11 Jan 2015, 2:05 pm

Jules_Bonnot_1912 wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
but that didn't stop the Front National people from wanting in on the "Je Suis Charlie" moment.

You're sure? Marine's daddy was one of the first to say that he wasn't Charlie ...

If they jumped on that train, I'd be very careful ... wolfs in sheep clothing


They would like to play wolf in sheep's cothing, but the shepherds aren't falling for it:
English language article about FN reaction to exclusion from C harlie Hebdo attack related events