The Way Society Headed

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I'm not going to do your research for you. Here's a start.
Yuri Bezmenof: soviet KGB defector and expert in communist subversion tactics - says what's going on in America, and this was back in the 80's... no one listened.

Obama is a Marxist, or at least he follows Marxist thought, he openly admits this in his self autobiographical book. I'm done conversing with you, as you just want to argue and not do any research for yourself, but expect it handed to you on a platter.

Last edited by Whathappened on 17 Mar 2015, 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Actually in the end state of comminism everyone gets economic equality, so there aren't people in severe poverty while there are some living better than kings. That is the end goal...and yes according to Marx socialism is just a stage, but as I said before he hardly has the monopoly on communism or socialism, marxism is a very specific branch and does not reflect the opinions of all who agree with socialist/communist ideas. Karl marx went about it all wrong, but he does not own the concept....Anyways I personally think economic equality would be better than a few disporionately wealthy people controlling the worlds wealth and resources while everyone else just gets whatever scraps 'trickle down'....the point of communism would be to get rid of the 'elitists'...you've got it all backwards.

I meant like something current....The Soviet Union does not even exist anymore, and it was hardly an example of proper communism. Do you have a real source, of modern day people identifying as Marxists stating they have the goals of causing moral decay or whatever it is you're on about?

Oh, poor you. It's all the fault of the atheists, the Zionists, the communists and whoever else the f**k is not a "peaceful loving Christian family". I'm trying to hold back the tears.
Western values are not really Christian values either, they were ditched a while ago.

If Obama is trying to turn the United States into a Marxist, Satanic, egalitarian state, could he please hurry it up a bit?

Viewed from Europe, where we still have plenty of Marxists, Communists and various other extreme left-wing factions who are quite open about pushing their political ideology, although they don't get much of a hearing nowadays despite the fact that they originate from here, it sounds somewhat implausible that a capitalist country like the USA, which tends to be far more right-wing and politically conservative than we are, should have been overrun by Marxists calling themselves Progressives. To European eyes, Barack Obama is slightly right of centre. I have lived and worked in America and have relatives there, and I never saw any evidence of large-scale Marxist influence.

I'm not suggesting that you're wrong, - after all, you know more about your country than I do - just that it seems rather alarmist given the general antipathy to left-wing politics in the USA, and the efforts that have always been made to prevent it from gaining a hold.

^this

Orangez must have already done some research because all research actually does show feminism as a result of industrialization. You are maybe putting the cart before the horse and assuming that since many famous feminists hold Marxist ideals, therefore Marxist ideals must have been what fueled feminism. But as Orangez correctly says, it was industrialization.

Not only did industrialization make independence (including female independence) easier, it forced it on people. Once industry instead of agriculture became the driver of the economy, people had to move to where the jobs were. This pulled apart the large farm family and paired it down to the nuclear family. It pulled apart communities as the industries they were built around moved away to cheaper labor. People have to leave their hometown, leave their nuclear family (since the extended family is truly history) to chase jobs around the country. Mobility is mandatory and mobility breaks down the family and breaks down the community. Your opening post lays the lack of social cohesion at the feet of Marxists but it was industrialization that caused it.

I'm not a Luddite. I don't want to go back. But if you look at what happened, you are mistaking effect for cause.

I third world countries right now, people are moving away from their large extended families to chase jobs in the cities. Look for feminism to follow, after industrialization has atomized their large extended families and forced mobility and the resulting independence on them.

Last edited by Janissy on 17 Mar 2015, 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

No your perspective is actually a lot more realistic of how it is over here than what the OP claims, Obama really isn't particularly left wing, at least his policies don't imply that....in fact I've become rather dissapointed about that, when he initially came to office I thought he was further left and would stick to that but turns out It was wishful thinking on my part.

Feminism - as a political movement- is Not the result of industrialization; feminism started as a political movement and as such, political movements have ulterior motives generally speaking than what we see at face value. This is all of politics. These "identity politics" were all based on a premise of "oppression". Whether that oppression exists or not in actuality is up for discussion, but many have argued that it didn't exist...that it was a manufactured issue - just like many identity politics are.


Some of the comments I'm seeing, actually prove to what level in society these things are manifesting and have permanently altered the way people are thinking.

I don't think women are oppressed, many women don't think that they're oppressed. But they're told they are, and from a very young age, and that's the narrative. Totally false.





As far as that poster claiming western values are not Christian values - really? We have two thousand years that says it is, versus your last 60 years or so of post modern BS that says it isn't, and insane social engineering that is completely ruining the Western Hemisphere.

I would advise him/her to watch the video I posted.

Feminism - as a political movement- is Not the result of industrialization; feminism started as a political movement and as such, political movements have ulterior motives generally speaking than what we see at face value. This is all of politics. These "identity politics" were all based on a premise of "oppression". Whether that oppression exists or not in actuality is up for discussion, but many have argued that it didn't exist...that it was a manufactured issue - just like many identity politics are.


Some of the comments I'm seeing, actually prove to what level in society these things are manifesting and have permanently altered the way people are thinking.

I don't think women are oppressed, many women don't think that they're oppressed. But they're told they are, and from a very young age, and that's the narrative. Totally false.





As far as that poster claiming western values are not Christian values - really? We have two thousand years that says it is, versus your last 60 years or so of post modern BS that says it isn't, and insane social engineering that is completely ruining the Western Hemisphere.

I would advise him/her to watch the video I posted.


Also, if you want to hurry the process along, and can't wait for the end results; catch a plane to Russia and go visit the sites of Russian gulags, or how about Mao's China....maybe you'd like to read about the "utopia" Lenin created when he manufactured a famine which killed tens of millions of his own people....all so that they could live in peaceful egalitarian harmony with one another, and sing kumbaya. The people of Eastern Europe had a term for those in the west being indoctrinated by communist philosophies and didn't know the end result; useful idiots. Ask any of these people or their parents or grandparents old enough to remember life events, and they'll share with you about the Utopia you are so eagerly seeking.

Okay- so the Commies- a political party with no votes, no following, and no influence, still somehow magically has the power to re engineer American society anyway.

But why do you drag "Zionists" into it?

What does "Zionism" (which is essentially about moving European Jewry to Israel, and doesnt even directly effect the USA) have to do with this re engineering of American society?

Zionists, and I don't mean this to sound offensive, but Jews in general....have had a huge influence in Communism/Marxism. Marx himself was of Jewish heritage.


You see.... in order to understand this, and it gets very complex, you have to understand Jewish history, and Communist history. It's more than I can explain here, which is why I'd urge you to do as much research as you can, but I'll try to explain something; Zionism has a Huge influence on USA, considering the USA is run by Zionists. AIPAC, the ADL, ACLU the largest lobbies in the US, are for the affairs of Israel. They say America's interests are Israels interests. Bull. They've dragged us into two wars since the turn of the new century. ...And that's only in the last 15 years. Most Americans don't want it. Are our voices heard? No. ...That's because our government; the Democrats on the left and Neocons on the right, are all in the pocket of Israel. Especially....those neocons on the right. But you see, everyone is. You don't last long in Washington if you don't vote Israel.

Zionists have had historic ties with the Bolsheviks, funded by Jacob Schiff - an American Zionist living in Manhattan. Trotski was full Jewish, Lenin part. If you do the research, there is a huge link among Jews and communism.

From our DHS to our IRS, from the Congress to the Executive Branch, Jewish Zionists occupy and dominate the committees, organizations and infrastructures of the US. Joe Liebermen, David Axelrod, Judge Richard Posner, Kagan, William Crystal. The Federal Reserve Bank, owned by Bernake, US treasury - headed byJacob Lewis, DHS (Department of Homeland Security) - Michael Chertoff, Diane Feinstein, Carl Levin of Senate Armed Services... I could go on and on.
AFT American Federation of Teachers (our education) - Randi Weingarten
Supreme Court: 4/9 or 44% representation of..... only 1.8% of US population - Sotomayor, Ginsberg, Kagan, Ryor.


American Media
CBS - Sumner Redstone
NBC Brian Roberts
ABC - CEO Robert Eiger
CNN - multimillionair Aviv Nobel

Last edited by Whathappened on 17 Mar 2015, 9:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

A variation on the ole "International Jewish Conspiracy" theme.

I think this is where the disaffected need to admit to themselves that it's okay to be disaffected and then decide on what kind of culture they want and bring it together - ambitiously and with the kinds of high standards that our society generally defers away from.

For one - given a choice to watch TV I don't do it, occasionally I'll catch the news to see the crapstorm that is DC and understand whose doing what. Aside from that I'd rather bury my face in the philosophical classics as well as the western mystery traditions and all kinds of what some might call 'discarded wisdom'.

The saddest thing of all to me - information has never been so freely available. You could read thousands of books for free including information that people would have risked their lives for centuries ago. So many people completely miss that because they're sucked into their iphones/ipads and the games and TV series that they could care less. I feel something of an imperative need to read and keep reading, partly because I realize it can help me make my life truly exceptional just at the experience and self-development level but I'd also add another thing; I don't know how much longer we'll have these things so free and I'd want to take full advantage of it while the getting is good (I'm not expecting some kind of crackdown on these freedoms necessarily but, in all honesty, this is really a pinnacle time for a person to throw their all at 'Know thyself' - particularly so many of the guys out there who find themselves single and marginally employed in their 20's and 30's).

The more people I think who use their time wisely, diligently, and generate their own internal renaissance, the more I think we can at least reassert some kind of culture. Any seed thought of that nature sufficiently developed could and with the right person in the right place is destined to touch a societal nerve to create a counternarrative for those who see the the whole human-technology integration virtually turning to mindlessness. I'd venture far more people feel that way than one might realize at first.

The premise of this thread is just ridiculous. I'm as distasteful towards Marxism as they come, and I think OP's conspiracist angle is absurd, as is the reactive hostility to those who disagree with his observations. I'm not even going to touch the implied racism and anti-feminist circlejerk.

If nothing else, "good old days" arguments rely upon flawed memory and ignorance of the fact that s**t still happened back then, we (in the cushy first world) just weren't as aware of it. By all objective standards, the world's never been a better place to live.