FBI Spent Years 'Researching' The Lyrics To 'Louie, Louie'

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I never said it was Caribbean in musical style.

The syntax within the lyrics, however, is creole-based.

I agree with what you say, actually--that it is a "Caribbean-inspired narrative."

Maybe in the movies, in real life not so much. Life was hard and rugged but so were the people, criminals were not well tolerated and were more likely to be shot or lynched on the spot than anything else. With stakes that high, unsurprisingly there wasn't a lot of crime. They'd only have like one sheriff and maybe a deputy in these frontier towns, the people didn't depend on them for protection and all had guns themselves. It is much more dangerous now in a city like Chicago than it was out on the frontier as far as crime standpoint goes.

also pretty funny that the FBI spent years researching this but can't be bothered to track how many people are killed by LEOs in the US in any given year.

"An armed society is a polite society" --Robert A. Heinlein (1942).

This was especially true in communities where people had to defend themselves. It worked.

Actually the reality was worse than the movies. The lawmen were essentially hired killers judge/jury and executioner. Many of the movie characters are based on real life lawmen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Old_West_lawmen

Eve the most well mean and fair ones were working in a situation with no real due process.

This is a statement that is often quoted. I actually don't have a problem with armed societies so long as tolerated in that society. The reality of crime, and you can take world statistics in its entirety. Whether you regulate strictly, or you promote gun ownership, there is no general rule or correlation either way to overall crime. If you are going to be empirical you would have to say it is inconclusive. Others factor are far more significant for crime. There is zero evidence that either guns or lack of guns make a society more polite or reduce crime. If they make people feel safe so be it.

People then to think of crime in a first person hypothetical scenario. This a notoriously unreliable way of anecdotally assessing a societal phenomenon.

The idea that the wild west was place where true justice prevailed, is pure historical revisionism. It was simply the best they could do in some frontier towns, in some cases the lawmen were worse or no better than those they were handing out justice over. Of course it is unreasonable to expect more, because at least in the early day, there wasn't infrastructure to support legal recourse.

The UK has a lower crime rate, and a lower violent crime rate than the US. However I make no claims as to why this is the case, I'm not trying it is to do with some policy.

"Policing by consent", and our modern police force predated gun regulation in the UK by 100 years. So it has nothing to do with gun regulation. The decision to routinely arm or not the police is a decision for each constabulary individually. This has always been the case.

Not everything as to be about gun politics. I respect whatever the US state decides on that as a non-citizen. Just don't think of a position as a magic pill.

"Policing by consent" is not about gun regulation, it a concept of law enforcement that is duty bound to serve and protect, and is mindful of how this can easily erode.

Also there is an argument especially in the US about not wanting a government agency to be too powerful. This relates back to policing by consent.

There was far less violence in the Old West than the movies would lead you to believe, it was a hard life but there wasn't constant marauding criminals and gunfights. Due process might not of always been respected but that is the same as any isolated frontier, most people were way more fearful of Indian raids(and with good reason) than they were criminal gangs and more so than that even just surviving day to day in an unforgiving land. Back in those days people would not tolerate criminals or cheaters, they would shoot or hang them on the spot and then call the sheriff. I live in Arizona and even now outside the megatropolis of Phoenix it is a vast isolated and desolate place so its easy for me to imagine what it was like back in in the 1800s, the population of the state was in the low thousands as opposed to 5 million+.

That's no joke. I didn't even know that he was saying "Louie, Louie" until I read this thread.

IJReview.com: "FBI Drops Truth-Bomb on Gun Control Advocates: Firearms Numbers at Record Levels & Violent Crime Decreases" (November 2014)
http://www.ijreview.com/2014/11/200671- ... es-america

TheBlaze.com: "Here's What Happened to Crime in Chicago After Illinois Finally Passed Concealed Carry Law" (April 4, 2014)
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/04 ... -read-this

Forbes.com: "Disarming Realities: As Gun Sales Soar, Gun Crimes Plummet" (May 14, 2013)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2 ... es-plummet


GunFacts.info: "Myth: Britain has strict gun control and a low crime rate" pp. 57-60 (2013)
http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts ... screen.pdf

I expected the usual gun politics....

It is an absolute indisputable fact that the US (as a whole) has a higher crime rate the UK (as a whole), and higher violent crime rate (as a whole). I never said the UK a low crime rate, and I'm not casting aspersions to guns. Using UK is as an example for this is a poor example to use, becuase you violent crime rate is still several times higher in the US no matter what to cause (and the total does matter).

Often people use a debunked collection of national statistics that was once widely used, by politicians and newspapers. The one that often cited stated that UK had a higher violent crime rate than South Africa. having lived in both countries this is clearly nonsense. You would easily get more murders and violent offenses in South Africa in a month than you might get in a year in UK, and it is recorded by third parties. In fact daily murder in South Africa is normal, it is violent place. There is a problem recording national statistics, where there isn't necessarily the incentive or resources to record it accurately. UK and US have a different standard than South Africa.

I said worldwide, there is no conclusive evidence to correlate gun ownership to crime. You can always find hand picked or massaged statistics to corroborate one position, but that is not enough to make a general rule.

My whole argument is crime has far bigger factor, and if you think that it is all about guns you a missing the point. Things like poverty, (sub) culture of crime, corruption, these are far bigger factors.

Cite your sources and references? I did.

This is kind of my point. It is mob/rule justice. Obviously what you get from movies is subjective. But what you are talking about is not a good model for justice.

Also there is some evidence that some lawmen were recruited on their notoriety as bad men. Not always the case granted, however there weren't recruited on their understanding of the law, that is for sure.

"Cow boy" (two words) was derogatory term unlike the modern term "cowboy". These people were known for conducting raids, stealing cattle, and general violence. In some cases there were worse than lawmen, but the lawmen weren't whiter than white either. However the lawmen did try to control this sort of activity, but there were concerned mostly for their patch.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-sta ... index.html

www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in- ... main_final

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/ ... index.html
http://www.census.gov/popclock/

http://africacheck.org/factsheets/facts ... or-201314/
http://www.southafrica.info/about/peopl ... VkLzJMsq1k

Debunked
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... a-U-S.html

Last edited by 0_equals_true on 17 May 2015, 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

GunOwners.org: "Myth #3: Gun Control Has Reduced The Crime Rates In Other Countries" (September 29, 2008)
https://www.gunowners.org/sk0703.htm

SoundMoneySA.co.za: "Violent crime rates: United Kingdom versus the United States" (January 1, 2013)
http://soundmoneysa.co.za/2013/01/viole ... ted-states

http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/20 ... an-the-us/