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Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

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nerdygirl
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13 Jun 2015, 9:45 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
We do have dominion but you cannot deny it's because of our knowledge, not because of our physical strength. Humans are quite weak compared to predatory species and would lose in a battle without special innovation.


This I agree with, and I will also say that we were given a mind that has the capacity for this knowledge, which is in part how we reflect the image of God and are superior to the animals.



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13 Jun 2015, 9:46 am

Let's take a closer look at Genesis 3:15, the verse dealing with the serpent as a species.

The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, Cursed are you more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you will go, And dust you will eat All the days of your life; 15And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."

When fundies read that they think women should hate snakes because God said it. For one thing, God did not write the Bible, humans wrote it. It's their interpretation of God but you as individual can only truly know God yourself, one on one. Humans are not going to be able to impart God to you through a book and the original Rabbis and mystics knew this. This realization has been lost to a rigid form of word worship that keeps you away from what you can know in your heart.


Really what this verse is, is protection for women working in the fields, where they might encounter snakes. Snakes, most likely, especially adders and vipers, took a toll on working women tending crops because they are low to the ground, easily hidden, and their bites can be lethal. Snakes were well concealed in the fields where they could easily conceal themselves in grasses and crops. I am sure, if you go back in time, you will find scores of families who despise snakes simply because they lost so many loved ones to snake bites. So this seems to be the reason for this verse. The snake is hated because it is the most dangerous animal. You don't see it coming, it strikes fast, it only needs one bite to kill you.

So it's no wonder snakes were mentioned in this particular verse and have such a horrible reputation. This verse is simply a way of warning women to watch out for snakes and don't get bit by one.



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13 Jun 2015, 9:53 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Let's take a closer look at Genesis 3:15, the verse dealing with the serpent as a species.

The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, Cursed are you more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you will go, And dust you will eat All the days of your life; 15And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."

When fundies read that they think women should hate snakes because God said it. For one thing, God did not write the Bible, humans wrote it. It's their interpretation of God but you as individual can only truly know God yourself, one on one. Humans are not going to be able to impart God to you through a book and the original Rabbis and mystics knew this. This realization has been lost to a rigid form of word worship that keeps you away from what you can know in your heart.


Really what this verse is, is protection for women working in the fields, where they might encounter snakes. Snakes, most likely, especially adders and vipers, took a toll on working women tending crops because they are low to the ground, easily hidden, and their bites can be lethal. Snakes were well concealed in the fields where they could easily conceal themselves in grasses and crops. I am sure, if you go back in time, you will find scores of families who despise snakes simply because they lost so many loved ones to snake bites. So this seems to be the reason for this verse. The snake is hated because it is the most dangerous animal. You don't see it coming, it strikes fast, it only needs one bite to kill you.

So it's no wonder snakes were mentioned in this particular verse and have such a horrible reputation. This verse is simply a way of warning women to watch out for snakes and don't get bit by one.


Actually, this passage is about the conflict between Satan & Jesus. It is a foreshadowing of the coming Messiah who will ultimately "crush" the serpent. Also see the story in Numbers regarding the bronze serpent and the passage in the Gospels where Jesus references the story in Numbers. The bite of the serpent is not about literal venom. It is about the effects of sin. See also in Romans where Paul talks asks where now is the sting of sin and death.



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13 Jun 2015, 9:57 am

nerdygirl wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Let's take a closer look at Genesis 3:15, the verse dealing with the serpent as a species.

The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, Cursed are you more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you will go, And dust you will eat All the days of your life; 15And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."

When fundies read that they think women should hate snakes because God said it. For one thing, God did not write the Bible, humans wrote it. It's their interpretation of God but you as individual can only truly know God yourself, one on one. Humans are not going to be able to impart God to you through a book and the original Rabbis and mystics knew this. This realization has been lost to a rigid form of word worship that keeps you away from what you can know in your heart.


Really what this verse is, is protection for women working in the fields, where they might encounter snakes. Snakes, most likely, especially adders and vipers, took a toll on working women tending crops because they are low to the ground, easily hidden, and their bites can be lethal. Snakes were well concealed in the fields where they could easily conceal themselves in grasses and crops. I am sure, if you go back in time, you will find scores of families who despise snakes simply because they lost so many loved ones to snake bites. So this seems to be the reason for this verse. The snake is hated because it is the most dangerous animal. You don't see it coming, it strikes fast, it only needs one bite to kill you.

So it's no wonder snakes were mentioned in this particular verse and have such a horrible reputation. This verse is simply a way of warning women to watch out for snakes and don't get bit by one.


Actually, this passage is about the conflict between Satan & Jesus. It is a foreshadowing of the coming Messiah who will ultimately "crush" the serpent. Also see the story in Numbers regarding the bronze serpent and the passage in the Gospels where Jesus references the story in Numbers. The bite of the serpent is not about literal venom. It is about the effects of sin. See also in Romans where Paul talks asks where now is the sting of sin and death.

I see it being more about the actual snake biting people and causing them to die. That is actually one verse I can take literally and truly understand why someone would write that. I would hate to be surrounded by poisonous snakes while working in a field and it's even worse when you can't tell which ones are poisonous and which ones aren't which I am sure they struggled with. For all I know, whomever wrote this verse (Moses, maybe?) could of just lost a loved one to snake bite right before.



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13 Jun 2015, 10:28 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
[

Mankind only had "dominion" after Adam and Eve ate "fruit" from the tree of knowledge. Before they weren't as civilized, they stayed in one area, the Garden of Eden. Then viola, the fruit was eaten, suddenly they are able to create advanced weapons, shoes for their feet, clothing that protected their skin, they knew about seasons, calendars and how to grow crops, they figured out how to build fortresses, pyramids, marble castles, great walls. The story is a metaphor for how humans went from being very simple to more complex.


Quite a good thing to most.

So what do you see the metaphor telling us of a God who wanted to keep A & E more simpleton than a progressive human?

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DL



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13 Jun 2015, 10:31 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

Mankind only had "dominion" after Adam and Eve ate "fruit" from the tree of knowledge. Before they weren't as civilized, they stayed in one area, the Garden of Eden. Then viola, the fruit was eaten, suddenly they are able to create advanced weapons, shoes for their feet, clothing that protected their skin, they knew about seasons, calendars and how to grow crops, they figured out how to build fortresses, pyramids, marble castles, great walls. The story is a metaphor for how humans went from being very simple to more complex.


What, in your metaphor, is God saying to us in trying to keep A & E blind and dumb?

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13 Jun 2015, 10:35 am

blauSamstag wrote:
as i understand it, God's whole plan revolved around allowing Adam & Eve to betray him and fall from grace.

Sort of manipulative and sadistic if you ask me.


Indeed.

That is the result od literal reading.

Strange then that literalist Christians do not see that.

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13 Jun 2015, 10:38 am

nerdygirl wrote:

The tree was specifically of the knowledge of good and evil. I don't see how you can read into it that it was the tree of ALL KNOWLEDGE.

Adam & Eve knew shame after eating of the tree. They became aware of a guilty conscience.

You cannot assume that all other knowledge proceeded from this tree and would not have been learned elsewhere.


I too think that good and evil applies to almost if not all knowledge.

Can you give us a short list where good or evil cannot be applied to something?

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13 Jun 2015, 10:40 am

cathylynn wrote:
i sure as heck hope it's not a sin. i think of it as a virtue. it's my second most important reason for living, right after making myself and others happy.


What do you think of bible God then and the story of Eden?

Was God a moral God?

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13 Jun 2015, 10:48 am

nerdygirl wrote:
[

In the image of God as in being able to reason and be creative. .


I like that you agree that pride can be quite good.

To be creative and be able to reason, one must have knowledge of good and evil or one might create something quite evil. Right?

To even have a desire to create, one must know which variables to choose from and which are good for the creation or evil.

That is why in my post to you above I asked you to come up with a few things where good and evil do not apply.

You cannot desire till you know what the choices are.

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DL



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13 Jun 2015, 11:07 am

nerdygirl wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
We do have dominion but you cannot deny it's because of our knowledge, not because of our physical strength. Humans are quite weak compared to predatory species and would lose in a battle without special innovation.


This I agree with, and I will also say that we were given a mind that has the capacity for this knowledge, which is in part how we reflect the image of God and are superior to the animals.


Who has dominion over the earth? Satan or man?

Scriptures say that God gave Adam and Eve dominion over the earth. Nowhere is scriptures does it say that God then gave it to Satan but for the temptation of Christ and Christian dogma and tradition has decreed that Satan has dominion over the earth because if Satan did not have it, it could not be used to tempt Jesus.

Dominion, simply stated, means having control or ownership over something. Man seems to be the one controlling what we can reasonably control on the earth. We use it and abuse it and have physical dominion over it which indicated our dominion and not Satan’s.

When and why did God reward Satan with dominion over us in scriptures?

Was the temptation of Christ valid with Satan having dominion or does man have dominion over the earth as the evidence indicates?

Regards
DL



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13 Jun 2015, 11:13 am

GnosticBishop wrote:
nerdygirl wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
We do have dominion but you cannot deny it's because of our knowledge, not because of our physical strength. Humans are quite weak compared to predatory species and would lose in a battle without special innovation.


This I agree with, and I will also say that we were given a mind that has the capacity for this knowledge, which is in part how we reflect the image of God and are superior to the animals.


Who has dominion over the earth? Satan or man?

Scriptures say that God gave Adam and Eve dominion over the earth. Nowhere is scriptures does it say that God then gave it to Satan but for the temptation of Christ and Christian dogma and tradition has decreed that Satan has dominion over the earth because if Satan did not have it, it could not be used to tempt Jesus.

Dominion, simply stated, means having control or ownership over something. Man seems to be the one controlling what we can reasonably control on the earth. We use it and abuse it and have physical dominion over it which indicated our dominion and not Satan’s.

When and why did God reward Satan with dominion over us in scriptures?

Was the temptation of Christ valid with Satan having dominion or does man have dominion over the earth as the evidence indicates?

Regards
DL


You ask good questions (including your previous post.) They are not ones I have quick answers to, so please give me time to think about how to formulate an answer.



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13 Jun 2015, 11:15 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
nerdygirl wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Let's take a closer look at Genesis 3:15, the verse dealing with the serpent as a species.

.


Your view of people fearing the serpent I see as strange.

It seems that you forget the serpent cults that were all over the Middle East in those days and how the serpent was venerated to the point where medicine uses it as their symbol.

You should also remember Moses and his serpent headed staff as well as it being the icon of the Levi tribe who were in charge of the temple functions and priestly duties.

Christianity vilified the serpent to discredit all the various serpent worshiping cults when they pushed their wrong view of Eden as our fall.

Regards
DL



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13 Jun 2015, 11:19 am

nerdygirl wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
nerdygirl wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
We do have dominion but you cannot deny it's because of our knowledge, not because of our physical strength. Humans are quite weak compared to predatory species and would lose in a battle without special innovation.


This I agree with, and I will also say that we were given a mind that has the capacity for this knowledge, which is in part how we reflect the image of God and are superior to the animals.


Who has dominion over the earth? Satan or man?

Scriptures say that God gave Adam and Eve dominion over the earth. Nowhere is scriptures does it say that God then gave it to Satan but for the temptation of Christ and Christian dogma and tradition has decreed that Satan has dominion over the earth because if Satan did not have it, it could not be used to tempt Jesus.

Dominion, simply stated, means having control or ownership over something. Man seems to be the one controlling what we can reasonably control on the earth. We use it and abuse it and have physical dominion over it which indicated our dominion and not Satan’s.

When and why did God reward Satan with dominion over us in scriptures?

Was the temptation of Christ valid with Satan having dominion or does man have dominion over the earth as the evidence indicates?

Regards
DL


You ask good questions (including your previous post.) They are not ones I have quick answers to, so please give me time to think about how to formulate an answer.


Absolutely.

I know I sometimes throw a wrench into the spokes of thinkers such as yourself who are more literal about reading scriptures than not. When we get into moral issue, literalists especially do not like me.

Many literalists the me because f what I writ and ask.

Regards
DL



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13 Jun 2015, 11:23 am

GnosticBishop wrote:
nerdygirl wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
nerdygirl wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
We do have dominion but you cannot deny it's because of our knowledge, not because of our physical strength. Humans are quite weak compared to predatory species and would lose in a battle without special innovation.


This I agree with, and I will also say that we were given a mind that has the capacity for this knowledge, which is in part how we reflect the image of God and are superior to the animals.


Who has dominion over the earth? Satan or man?

Scriptures say that God gave Adam and Eve dominion over the earth. Nowhere is scriptures does it say that God then gave it to Satan but for the temptation of Christ and Christian dogma and tradition has decreed that Satan has dominion over the earth because if Satan did not have it, it could not be used to tempt Jesus.

Dominion, simply stated, means having control or ownership over something. Man seems to be the one controlling what we can reasonably control on the earth. We use it and abuse it and have physical dominion over it which indicated our dominion and not Satan’s.

When and why did God reward Satan with dominion over us in scriptures?

Was the temptation of Christ valid with Satan having dominion or does man have dominion over the earth as the evidence indicates?

Regards
DL


You ask good questions (including your previous post.) They are not ones I have quick answers to, so please give me time to think about how to formulate an answer.


Absolutely.

I know I sometimes throw a wrench into the spokes of thinkers such as yourself who are more literal about reading scriptures than not. When we get into moral issue, literalists especially do not like me.

Many literalists the me because f what I writ and ask.

Regards
DL


Just to be clear, you have not thrown a wrench into my thinking. I just have to think how best to answer. First step is figuring out exactly what you are saying & asking.



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13 Jun 2015, 12:19 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
nerdygirl wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Let's take a closer look at Genesis 3:15, the verse dealing with the serpent as a species.

.


Your view of people fearing the serpent I see as strange.

It seems that you forget the serpent cults that were all over the Middle East in those days and how the serpent was venerated to the point where medicine uses it as their symbol.

You should also remember Moses and his serpent headed staff as well as it being the icon of the Levi tribe who were in charge of the temple functions and priestly duties.

Christianity vilified the serpent to discredit all the various serpent worshiping cults when they pushed their wrong view of Eden as our fall.

Regards
DL


This would be the Jews and those influenced by them who feared snakes but you make a good point. Genesis 3:15 also suggests a veiled swat at those idol worshiping cults that were in Egypt in Moses's time and the snake on the aristocracy's head dresses. The Jews were a sensitive people who would have thought it folly to worship a creature that is responsible for so many deaths. They found it folly to worship any creature, for that matter.