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religion criticism and mockery thread

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Drake
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11 Nov 2015, 11:48 am

AspE wrote:
Drake wrote:
AspE wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
You have to understand: to some people, their religion is their life and their reason for living.

People will not react well if you are attacking their life.

I'm an atheist--but I don't attack people's personal beliefs.

It's all a matter of that thing called "faith."

Don't care. Religion should be mocked mercilessly. I respect people but not their delusions.

Why? Mockery is counterproductive.

I disagree. I have often reconsidered my opinions or actions after being mocked. It's the basis of most political satire.

But would it have worked better if someone had simply explained?



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11 Nov 2015, 11:48 am

Venger wrote:
SilverProteus wrote:
While I'm an atheist and think that religion is one of the worst things the human mind and societies can come up with, I agree mockery is counterproductive. You aren't going to deconvert people by mocking them, so what would be the point? Just something in order to make you feel better about yourself?


Christianity has a wussy stereotype associated with it(i.e. Ned Flanders). Therefore, atheists who mock it regularly probably think that they're "bad-azz". :roll:


I really don't want to comment on the original topic other than to say that mocking anyone for their beliefs is bullying and quite frankly, counterproductive.

But I felt I needed to offer a correction to the stereotype. Maybe twenty-some years ago when The Simpsons premiered Christianity might have been equated to Ned Flanders. However conservative Christianity today is far more likely to be equated with open carry ammosexuals, the Duggars, Westboro Church and One Million Moms / AFA. And since half of America anyway is either Roman Catholic or Southern Baptist, "Christian" ends up being generalized as "conservative Christian". Which means it is further equated with things like oppressing & bullying LGBT people, some racism, strong misogyny, etc.. In other words, a strong drive for power over others; pretty much the opposite of the fictional Mr. Flanders.


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SilverProteus
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11 Nov 2015, 3:13 pm

Venger wrote:
SilverProteus wrote:
While I'm an atheist and think that religion is one of the worst things the human mind and societies can come up with, I agree mockery is counterproductive. You aren't going to deconvert people by mocking them, so what would be the point? Just something in order to make you feel better about yourself?


Christianity has a wussy stereotype associated with it(i.e. Ned Flanders). Therefore, atheists who mock it regularly probably think that they're "bad-azz". :roll:


I don't know if they think that. Many think that they are smarter than religious people (and I think that in most cases, they are).


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0_equals_true
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11 Nov 2015, 4:23 pm

Venger wrote:
Christianity has a wussy stereotype associated with it(i.e. Ned Flanders). Therefore, atheists who mock it regularly probably think that they're "bad-azz". :roll:


Atheists don't believe in god. It is really not complicated to understand. It is about ideas not whether they wuss or not.

Ned Flanders if anything has more redeeming features than Reverend Lovejoy.

However this has zero impact on criticism of religion.



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11 Nov 2015, 9:37 pm

Drake wrote:
AspE wrote:
Drake wrote:
AspE wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
You have to understand: to some people, their religion is their life and their reason for living.

People will not react well if you are attacking their life.

I'm an atheist--but I don't attack people's personal beliefs.

It's all a matter of that thing called "faith."

Don't care. Religion should be mocked mercilessly. I respect people but not their delusions.

Why? Mockery is counterproductive.

I disagree. I have often reconsidered my opinions or actions after being mocked. It's the basis of most political satire.

But would it have worked better if someone had simply explained?

Maybe sometimes.

Maybe I don't believe in being productive. Maybe the mockery is targeted at closeted atheists to make them feel more confident and foster a sense of community.



Drake
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11 Nov 2015, 11:09 pm

AspE wrote:
Drake wrote:
AspE wrote:
Drake wrote:
AspE wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
You have to understand: to some people, their religion is their life and their reason for living.

People will not react well if you are attacking their life.

I'm an atheist--but I don't attack people's personal beliefs.

It's all a matter of that thing called "faith."

Don't care. Religion should be mocked mercilessly. I respect people but not their delusions.

Why? Mockery is counterproductive.

I disagree. I have often reconsidered my opinions or actions after being mocked. It's the basis of most political satire.

But would it have worked better if someone had simply explained?

Maybe sometimes.

Maybe I don't believe in being productive. Maybe the mockery is targeted at closeted atheists to make them feel more confident and foster a sense of community.

A community built on mocking others? That seems like a very shaky foundation, and is not the kind of community I'd want to be a part of. That's the kind of community that gives atheists a bad name, full of trolls and elitist dicks.

I will though say that satire can have its place and I think can be employed constructively.



Venger
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12 Nov 2015, 3:03 am

SilverProteus wrote:
Venger wrote:
SilverProteus wrote:
While I'm an atheist and think that religion is one of the worst things the human mind and societies can come up with, I agree mockery is counterproductive. You aren't going to deconvert people by mocking them, so what would be the point? Just something in order to make you feel better about yourself?


Christianity has a wussy stereotype associated with it(i.e. Ned Flanders). Therefore, atheists who mock it regularly probably think that they're "bad-azz". :roll:


I don't know if they think that. Many think that they are smarter than religious people (and I think that in most cases, they are).


Well duh, aren't many(or most) hardline-atheists former Christians? Which in turn probably makes them view themselves as a "former nice guy". lol

Just a guess since most of them seem to be mainly obsessed with Christianity, but then claim to despise all religions equally of course.



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12 Nov 2015, 2:05 pm

Venger wrote:
Well duh, aren't many(or most) hardline-atheists former Christians? Which in turn probably makes them view themselves as a "former nice guy". lol
Just a guess since most of them seem to be mainly obsessed with Christianity, but then claim to despise all religions equally of course.


Most I've met don't actually despise religion at all; what they despise is when religion is used to oppress others. So you may be seeing a bit of a skewed sample, as in most English-speaking cultures that would be Catholicism and conservative Protestants. Also, many non-hardline atheist who have never been religious also have for various reasons, be it privilege or other circumstance, simply never been negatively affected and so do not gain your notice.


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12 Nov 2015, 5:51 pm

Respecting anyone's personal belief is a nice idea, but that means religions shouldn't be allowed to proselitize either. As long as they do, I feel obliged to try converting them to atheism when I feel like it. And my strategy is mockery.

I don't really want to lower myself to that level, but as my teaching is one of personal freedom and responsibility, I feel religious agendas to be trying to curtail my values.
If they are pro-life: good for them. Just: I'm not. And I don't want laws to be based on voodoo.


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14 Nov 2015, 9:58 pm

This sort of hate-bashing makes me squirm, personally. I'm an atheist, and even I don't agree with this kind of behaviour. Possibly because it has such negative connotations - aggressiveness, nastiness, shaming, invalidating, ignorance, persecution, insensitivity, elitism, bullying, marginalising. If you disagree with some aspect of some religion, what is wrong with a discussion about it? Really understand, instead of just making some superficial judgement that is bound to make the followers of that religion feel like sh!t? I really don't understand whinging about and hate-bashing something for no reason.


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15 Nov 2015, 2:45 am

Well, this thread sure didn't go as planned.


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15 Nov 2015, 4:28 am

Gods not real, enough said, if he is, he an insecure pansy and I kicked his ass, gave him a black eye, and set his beard on fire and now he is afraid of me!


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16 Nov 2015, 12:55 pm

Cockroach96 wrote:
Why do you hate me so much?
This thread doesn't attack anyone, it attacks BS ideas.


I AM my ideas.



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16 Nov 2015, 1:02 pm

Edenthiel wrote:
Venger wrote:
SilverProteus wrote:
While I'm an atheist and think that religion is one of the worst things the human mind and societies can come up with, I agree mockery is counterproductive. You aren't going to deconvert people by mocking them, so what would be the point? Just something in order to make you feel better about yourself?


Christianity has a wussy stereotype associated with it(i.e. Ned Flanders). Therefore, atheists who mock it regularly probably think that they're "bad-azz". :roll:


I really don't want to comment on the original topic other than to say that mocking anyone for their beliefs is bullying and quite frankly, counterproductive.

But I felt I needed to offer a correction to the stereotype. Maybe twenty-some years ago when The Simpsons premiered Christianity might have been equated to Ned Flanders. However conservative Christianity today is far more likely to be equated with open carry ammosexuals, the Duggars, Westboro Church and One Million Moms / AFA. And since half of America anyway is either Roman Catholic or Southern Baptist, "Christian" ends up being generalized as "conservative Christian". Which means it is further equated with things like oppressing & bullying LGBT people, some racism, strong misogyny, etc.. In other words, a strong drive for power over others; pretty much the opposite of the fictional Mr. Flanders.


What you describe is also a media construct. The extreme minority, Westboro, is not really representative of how people feel. Besides, the fact that there are people who call themselves Christians yet do not follow the example of Jesus does not discredit the wisdom of Jesus in any way. It merely illustrates how weak and flawed humans tend to be.



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16 Nov 2015, 1:29 pm

I have this shirt:
Image
rather blasphemous.


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17 Nov 2015, 2:15 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
Gods not real, enough said, if he is, he an insecure pansy and I kicked his ass, gave him a black eye, and set his beard on fire and now he is afraid of me!

they will tell legends about you one day, surely. :bigsmurf:


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