Or geeks and feminism

Post Reply New Topic

That is: They choose a subset of the straight, white, cis-gendered male population who are already disenfranchised socially and even economically(in the case of such men with mental disabilities and illnesses, like autism for example) to kick at because they know these people aren't a protected class so bashing them doesn't undermine their argument. I guess geeks are just too soft of a target! But it's becoming increasingly clear that these whiny tumblr/twitter feminists are wolves in sheeps clothing.

Whether that is the case or not, there is a real issue of a drop of academic performance of young boys at the moment in all fields.

If you only view one demographic isolation that is not the whole picture.

What I'm certain about is discouragement doesn't amount people being called 'bossy' as some have campaigned. That is simply nonsense. The kind sort field that were cited if something like would have bothered them they have never succeed in those fields for long, you need thicker skin. in fact the majority of leadership roles, of which those leaders campaigning were in, most men or women would not have reached those heights anyway.

Perception is a powerful thing. There are many influences on people.

It is illegal to discriminate on sex with regard for jobs an pay and there is a clear process and this can go to tribunal. Pay gap has been debunked several times. Simply it is not common for women to get payed less for the same job, the penalties for doing so are not worth it nor doesn't make sense.

It is significant that a more mixed demographic in a career is not necessarily indicative of a fairer society. That is my point. If you want more women engineers, then less choice helps. I don't advocate this though. Economic diversity is about choice.

Most people feel discouraged in difficult subjects like Maths, Physics and Chemistry. There are hard subjects. However many women are more than capable.

My personal view is that there is a differnce between geeks and technically skilled people.

I really don't see a conflict with the technically skilled and women, as they include women and these women are respected in their field.

It may be illegal to discriminate, but that doesn't mean that people don't still have (usually unconscious) biases against women and PoC that effect things like their hiring practices (look at the research that shows that people are 50% more likely to hire someone with the exact same resume when the name on that resume is that of a man as opposed to a woman, and the difference is even more notable when the name on the resume is a "black-sounding" name like Shaniqua.) Hiring biases are real and they have nothing to do with "having a thicker skin". The research is out there if you care to find it and inspect it for yourself.

Also, I don't believe the pay gap has been debunked. Can you cite sources? All the information I have seen shows a definitive pay gap, that is even more extreme for women of colour than for white women. Bias and discrimination are real and they effect real women's lives negatively. You don't have to care about that if you don't want to--but if you are concerned about making the world a more equitable and just place for women and PoC you probably should care.

You totally read over my posts ITT. And IDK about 0=true but I for one actually *do* care about making the world a more equitable place for everyone(and I mean EVERYONE): And that means people of all colors, and all genders, and all neurologies....including white, heterosexual, cis-gendered men. Now see, I do care that bias and discrimination negatively effect women's lives, but I am a (white, straight, cis) autistic man and they negatively affect my life too! When I speak to them about this they often respond with dismissives that I'm just a "whiner" and "we're the real victims". So I ask you, do you really want to work together to make things easier for everyone or continue this infighting about who has it harder? If you genuinely do with to make the world more equitable and end oppression then you really should care.


But I implore you to drop this antiquated, chauvinist term "people of color". It's rather demeaning to define a vast, unrelated group of people based one what they aren't rather than what they *are*.

Actually, all of the PoC I talk to prefer that phrase when being referred to as a group, so I will continue to respect their wishes. It is generally accepted as the most respectful way to refer to non-white people. Since you are white yourself you can't dictate to them how they should be referred to.

In regards to your "white dudes have it just as bad as oppressed minorities" silliness--well, I'll just laugh at the ridiculousness of that assertion and continue to not be able to take you very seriously as long as you express it. The amount of side eye you must get from people IRL if you express those opinions out loud to anyone other than other white dudes... hehehe

Geeks are looked upon as easy targets regardless of race, gender, sexual identity, religious beliefs, etc.

And bullies who go after the socially acceptable easy targets exist in every imaginable demographic.

I am a white man who does not fit the hetero WASP mold, so, yeah, I faced tons of discrimination over that throughout my life. In many states, it is still legal to terminate somebody's employment if the boss suspects homosexuality. Yet I have often been told that the discrimination I faced, which included a few acts of extreme violence committed against me, meant nothing because I was white and male. Yeah, but I also am a gay Aspie geek. Then again, I do not even want to imagine how much worse it would be for me if I were a female with those traits. Misogyny is rampant in geek culture, I have noticed. And homophobia, and racism, and xenophobia of all stripes.

Not sure what point I am trying to make. Other than groups of people hate other groups of people, and the world moves on regardless?

Tis true. I remember back in the 1990s when black geeks were called "oreos" by the more social(and athletic) black kids who were more into being gangstas than studying hard and focusing on learning. The idea is that if you're black, studious, but socially inept and not into sports and the thug life, you're somehow not a "real black person". Reading books and studying is "acting white".





Nice Straw-womyn!

I never stated that white men as a *group* are oppressed and have it easy! I did point out that there are oppressed people who also happen to be white and male because they happen to belong to marginalized groups that cut across racial and gender lines: Like sexual minorities, the mentally disabled(including autistic people), and the mentally ill. Once again, your true colors are starting to show(no pun intended). You really don't give a s**t about fairness and making the world more equitable. You simply want to advance the self-interests of your own group at the expense of others(like autistic/disabled men who happen to white and straight) who aren't part of an officially protected class. Silliness and stupidity at its finest. That's why there's such a backlash against these entitled white feminists. You people really aren't what you say you are and everyone else is starting to pick up on it.






And furthermore, if you think that PoC have solidarity with each other despite their major differences in appearance, history, and culture...you must not know much about what's happening in LA these days where there is violent conflict between Afro-Americans and Mexican Americans.

http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/0 ... is-a-myth/
http://humcap.uchicago.edu/RePEc/hka/wp ... cutive.pdf
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christina ... 73804.html
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... ap/276367/

The problem is a jobs gap rather than a pay gap.

Also if you a road sweeper, refuge collector, labourer you have less career prospects than a nurse or a childcare assistant. I don't want to be as divisive as that, but is seem that to often men are treated as if they are all responsible for societies ills.

Perhaps when we see that oppression can happen across all boundaries back and forth, and stop believing that only one group is ever guilty of it or always the cause of it, we may make some progress. We are prejudiced in how we view prejudice.

E.g ,some people call racism against white people, "reverse racism" for instance. BS it's just racism.

Or the fact that many people see superficially similar groups attacking each other as only "their" business. For instance, one ethnic African group attacking another.
If an ethnic English person mocks an ethnic Scottish person about their identity, they are called racist. Both are white.
But I am in a position where I seem to be expected to hold my tongue if an ethnic Somalian is personally attacked by an ethnic Nigerian through their racial identity. It's seen as "their" business. Prejudice should be challenged whenever and whoever is doing it by anyone who is there.

Similarly, when some women make derogatory generalisations about men, we are almost expected to laugh it off, as if two wrongs really DO make a right. If a man complains about sexism towards himself, he is treated as a joke. Neither gender doing this is OK. Sexism is wrong whatever person is doing it.

Perhaps it would be nice if society stopped using "Masculinity" as a dirty word. After all it is supposed to denote good qualities as well as the more ambivalent ones.

Exactly, the monopoly of oppression is not only really stupid and divisive, it is just terrible advocacy. Who are they trying to convince? Not those they have generalised about.

Mary Beard has it right. If you want people to come to your side you have to persuade them. All the telling them I how terrible they are, and how privileged they are and genralising is not going to help. if you make people feel like they are treading on eggshells, you loose potential allies.

The only thing that has noteworthy about these movement recently is they think the way to equality is by curtailing basic rights like first amendment.

I wish it was a parody where you go to secular talk and people are made to introduce themselves by saying "I'm a [prefix]-gendered [race] [sex] [sexuality] [and I have [lot of] privilege]", but this actually going on. WTF!? I would have never have believed it 5 years ago. None of that should matter. I don't care if you are a green alien.

Third wave feminist group have also tried, to use their own phase, "culturally appropriate" ethnic minority rights, gender and sexuality rights, secularism, atheism, etc. Then homogenised and standardised everything to fit an oversimplistic and divisive ideology, which used a flawed approach to equality.

The civil right movement in the 60s had people like Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King. The fought against the ideas that are cropping up now, like segregation and right to express yourself. They didn't advocate that in order to address discrimination there must be a kind of negative discrimination against the perceived privileged group.

Eusociality is inane and while I'd be inclined to take wilburforce's cop-out, I'll stick around because I've legitimate professional reasons for needing to know what the ladies have to say about this. As a hacker, a solid half of my most respected peers are women. In citizen-scientist terms, probably more than half.

Everybody please stop acting like code's got a gender.

I'm a programmer. I could care less about gender. I'd work with anybody that has soemthing to offer.

I just think it really absurd how the same s**ts come up, time again. Imagine if I said "I'm fed up with having the argument with black females". That would be unnecessary and divisive wouldn't it?

We need to stop gernalising period/full stop.

Blanket conspiracies rarely offer any answers, the devil is in the detail.

Another way of saying it is that the public at large has been fixated on technologies built by minorities for at least a little while now but we need to do more; it's not a single question of enabling people to build what we all need, the crux of it is that we should not be stratifying anyone's talents in that manner. Closed source has amply succeeded in its' mission of corroding people's confidence in their own engineering abilities.

I think the hostility comes in part from proximity. A lot of younger people and "hipsters" are Internet and geek/nerd people as well, and that's also where they're meeting the nerds and the geeks. Who themselves have subpopulations of men who struggle with women and vent that online, or cause trouble with women online. It's easy to misinterpret online and a lot of people let their problems out here, where they can all crash into each other and add to paranoia.

The Internet is also full of people stirring the pot simply to see it boil. Many aren't good at telling when someone is pulling their leg just to see them react. The more insidious problems are a lot harder to spot than someone making nasty remarks on Reddit, and a lot harder to deal with.