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cathylynn
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23 Dec 2015, 12:07 am

the26thangel wrote:
cathylynn wrote:
my husband and i both would be dead or institutionalized instead of happy and productive were it not for antipsychotics. i agree that there is over-prescribing. surgeons like to cut. internists and psychiatrists like to prescribe. if all you have is a hammer, everything is a nail.


Kudos cathylynn!! This isn't my thread, but I appreciate you sharing that. I'm also happy for you and wish you the best! :)

thanks.



cberg
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23 Dec 2015, 12:09 am

Without marijuana I'd be dead & psychiatry still somehow believes that makes people psychotic... :roll:

I think those numbers probably apply inversely to individual practices too; eighty percent of a psychiatrist's patients might benefit from their area of expertise, but psychiatrists are still just people - at risk of deceit & greed like any others. I'm going to have to go through my usual psychologist to get that psychiatrist to call off his debt collectors because he just keeps having people call & ask me for money and there's no possible way he even remembers why. His peons just keep asking me for a thousand bucks or something, all because of some scribble on a calendar I've never even heard of. This is a guy who lectured me on IT security with iPhone in hand, after I told him that's my job.

I'd say I take more issue with the degrees & cash going to these peoples' heads. A larger issue than over-prescription is the vilification of traditional medicine as 'pseudoscience' when it's been working just fine for millenia. Single-payer health care turned out to be a complete myth for us as well... :(


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cathylynn
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23 Dec 2015, 12:51 am

marijuana does predispose to psychosis, especially if used during the teen years. it also saps motivation and impairs coordination. it also helps prevent nausea, abort asthma attacks and is one of the few true aphrodisiacs. it's a mixed bag. i'm for legalization and more study, so folks can know exactly what to expect when they use it.



cberg
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23 Dec 2015, 1:42 am

Honestly I think that's BS & everyone knows it. People have been getting persecuted over their favorite flower for a century, does that not merit fighting back even a bit? Last I checked nobody gets wrestled into cop cars over SSRIs even though they're way riskier to anybody who doesn't fit their bill. Feel free to call all hippies psychotic I suppose, doesn't make it right. Not even remotely close.

Go ahead & watch me work, bike or ski and then tell me my coordination's impaired. For that matter watch me on a tightrope! I'd be a jittery mess without it on account of the gut/brain connection none of us understand. I don't use marijuana for hardly any of those things except nausea, and that's the bottom of my list. I detox like anyone else would with any other drug but let's be real, it's not much of a drug in the grand scheme of things. It's really just more of a ticket to more than one hour of sleep per night, saying goodbye to eyestrain so I can read, relaxing enough to see my friends & pain relief for months of work (so I can avoid carpal tunnel). It's the only medicine I know that lets me perceptually inhabit my own body.

And psychiatry as an industry is heavily invested in criminalizing it forever so they can take kickbacks from Pfizer. That's my real problem with them.


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cathylynn
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23 Dec 2015, 1:49 am

what you think is BS and what has been proven are at odds.



cberg
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23 Dec 2015, 1:30 pm

Bribery does not constitute proof - I was raised by a PhD so I take science with ample grains of salt when it's funded by the drug lobby. Another thing that's been proven is the kickbacks I talked about. I simply prefer to discern for myself the distinction between prescribing psychiatric drugs and advertising them. Benefits of proper medication notwithstanding, not once in my life did I feel particularly lacking in mental capacity so I don't feel like changing that on the unstable basis of private research. I just don't believe my happiness ever has nor ever will be derived from corporate means.

Case in point - you didn't cite any science. Now of course you could go about linking me to something, bottom line some of us just aren't at home among drug companies. For people working in knowledge economies, physical health takes precedence over emotional anything. If I touched a pill with any expectation that it might make me feel good, I'd be compromising years of learned objectivity; I'd be separating myself from the one way I know how to engage with my work. To some that may seem like I'm being tough on myself or others but in practice it's the one way I know how to be comfortable.


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23 Dec 2015, 2:38 pm

Well some people have more problems than regular ups and downs and normal changes and transitions. Also pills are hardly the only treatment used for mental disorders. But yeah I take issue with prescribing tons of pills with harmful side effects to someone as a default treatment, and doctors not listening to their patients about side effects and such. I think anti-depressants get way over-prescribed I mean they try to give them for damn near everything.

I myself do have generalized anxiety, PTSD and recurrent episodes of major depression...and yeah those can get quite hard to deal with. I have a couple prescriptions one to help sleep that I rarely use and some Valium for the PTSD and anxiety which I have not had to take for a while. So cannot say I am totally anti-medication, but there are problems with how it is prescribed and how often. I also did some trauma therapy for the PTSD which has helped some with that.


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23 Dec 2015, 2:49 pm

cathylynn wrote:
marijuana does predispose to psychosis, especially if used during the teen years. it also saps motivation and impairs coordination. it also helps prevent nausea, abort asthma attacks and is one of the few true aphrodisiacs. it's a mixed bag. i'm for legalization and more study, so folks can know exactly what to expect when they use it.


Actually more recent research claims there is no substantial proof marijuana predisposes anyone to psychosis, they have found its possible when used in adolescence it can slightly effect brain development, but they don't know exactly how. It has also been found that a lot of people with psychotic disorders use marijuana to alleviate the symptoms which also skews the results as they could have started using it after experiencing symptoms instead of using it beforehand.

It really only effects motivation and coordination if you are stoned.....which wears off. It is also possible to ingest too little to get stoned/high just for symptom relief in cases of people using it medicinally.


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23 Dec 2015, 3:09 pm

cathylynn wrote:
marijuana does predispose to psychosis, especially if used during the teen years. it also saps motivation and impairs coordination. it also helps prevent nausea, abort asthma attacks and is one of the few true aphrodisiacs. it's a mixed bag. i'm for legalization and more study, so folks can know exactly what to expect when they use it.


The effects of marijuana vary from strain to strain and person to person--for instance, I come from a family with a long history of mood disorders that include psychotic manias, yet I vaporise cannabis almost every day (and have for a few years now) and I have never been psychotic; I can also vape all day and then go mountain biking in the evening and I have never fallen off my bike or had an accident while riding while high, and I can draw highly detailed images while very high--so it's effects on coordination I think are arguable and don't apply to everyone who uses, as well.



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23 Dec 2015, 3:11 pm

I've smoked weed pretty much constantly since 1992. It improves everything about me. :)



cathylynn
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23 Dec 2015, 5:22 pm

anecdotes are just anecdotes. they don't prove much. i smoked marijuana almost daily for three years, then developed a psychotic disorder. see how that works?



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23 Dec 2015, 5:26 pm

cathylynn wrote:
anecdotes are just anecdotes. they don't prove much. i smoked marijuana almost daily for three years, then developed a psychotic disorder. see how that works?

None of my business, but was there a distinct causal effect? I once had a very disturbing incident of intensified realization while smoking. I still feel disconnected, but in a comfortable way.



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23 Dec 2015, 5:44 pm

@cathylynn: Not exactly. You made an association & decidedly accepted a negative interpretation of your scenario; we're all free to ascibe to positive views of our own minds just the same.

I've felt the same dissociation Ann mentioned but it always passes, also I feel it's predicated more on my intermittent depression than any particular habit. The brain never stops making associations, so it's impossible to check & recheck all of them.


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cberg
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23 Dec 2015, 6:54 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Well some people have more problems than regular ups and downs and normal changes and transitions. Also pills are hardly the only treatment used for mental disorders. But yeah I take issue with prescribing tons of pills with harmful side effects to someone as a default treatment, and doctors not listening to their patients about side effects and such. I think anti-depressants get way over-prescribed I mean they try to give them for damn near everything.

I myself do have generalized anxiety, PTSD and recurrent episodes of major depression...and yeah those can get quite hard to deal with. I have a couple prescriptions one to help sleep that I rarely use and some Valium for the PTSD and anxiety which I have not had to take for a while. So cannot say I am totally anti-medication, but there are problems with how it is prescribed and how often. I also did some trauma therapy for the PTSD which has helped some with that.


Great to know you're doing better lately!


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"Standing on a well-chilled cinder, we see the fading of the suns, and try to recall the vanished brilliance of the origin of the worlds."
-Georges Lemaitre
"I fly through hyperspace, in my green computer interface"
-Gem Tos :mrgreen:


the26thangel
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25 Dec 2015, 1:55 am

cathylynn wrote:
marijuana does predispose to psychosis, especially if used during the teen years. it also saps motivation and impairs coordination. it also helps prevent nausea, abort asthma attacks and is one of the few true aphrodisiacs. it's a mixed bag. i'm for legalization and more study, so folks can know exactly what to expect when they use it.


I think it can sap motivation, but I also think it depends highly on the person "and/or" the mood. I've met many ppl who can smoke weed and it gives them the energy to do things that they weren't doing under depressed circumstances. However a normal go-getter might get mellow and super relaxed and do less. This is probably why so many people are at odds against legalization or not, since it effects people differently. But no matter what, I've never seen a person smoke weed who didn't become less stressed, lol.



the26thangel
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25 Dec 2015, 2:02 am

Also for the record, I've never seen or heard of anyone gaining psyc disorders from weed. However, ppl with psyc disorders have likely smoked weed much like the majority of the population.

Correlation does not prove causation. <-- one of the most important yet overlooked facts in the world

Ta-ta for now and have a beautiful day :)