What belief is weirder?

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wittgenstein
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05 Jan 2016, 7:43 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

An atheist doesn't believe in a God/gods who is consciously aware of his/her/its existence.

They could believe in "forces" which are not conscious of their own existence.

I don't believe in either.

You don't believe in unconscious forces? Wind, Solar, Geothermal? Or are you saying that there is no explanation as to why there is something rather then nothing. Obviously, some kind of force created the universe. I agree that that force need not be God or even conscious, but to say that nothing * created everything seems silly to me.
* Unless you treat "nothing" as a "something " such as the quantum vacuum.

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05 Jan 2016, 8:19 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

Neither. I think believing that juice is good in cereal is weird.

My sister recommended that to me the other day.

Pretty sure she was joking.

naturalplastic
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05 Jan 2016, 8:22 am

wittgenstein wrote:

If one (wrongly ) defines "metaphysics " as supernatural. Then when one says that "supernatural " is what relates to metaphysics, one has commited a tautology. Supernatural is what relates to the supernatural.

So what IS "supernatural"?

But before you answer that tell us what "natural" is.

kraftiekortie
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05 Jan 2016, 9:40 am

I meant: a force which is superior--in the sense that it is able to transcend/create phenomena---but is not conscious of its own existence.

adifferentname
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05 Jan 2016, 11:34 am

wittgenstein wrote:

Actually, "metaphysics " does not exclusively refer to the supernatural. Any system that seeks to explain/describe reality is metaphysical.

Of course not, and the definition that I provided is outmoded and largely obsolete, used merely as an example of why a precise definition of "supernatural" was necessary to the discussion. Are we dealing with the paranormal or with those things which might be considered extra-Universal?

DevilKisses
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05 Jan 2016, 12:30 pm

adifferentname wrote:

wittgenstein wrote:

Actually, "metaphysics " does not exclusively refer to the supernatural. Any system that seeks to explain/describe reality is metaphysical.

What I mean by paranormal is stuff like reiki, the law of attraction, spirits, esp or telekinesis.

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naturalplastic
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05 Jan 2016, 12:50 pm

DevilKisses wrote:

adifferentname wrote:

wittgenstein wrote:

Actually, "metaphysics " does not exclusively refer to the supernatural. Any system that seeks to explain/describe reality is metaphysical.

What I mean by paranormal is stuff like reiki, the law of attraction, spirits, esp or telekinesis.

Where did you use the word "paranormal"?

You didnt.

What you said was "supernatural".

So I assume that the above definition for "paranormal" is what you meant by "supernatural" ( ESP, spirits, etc).

So your question would be:

Which is wierder: a 'skeptic'( which you havent defined yet) who believes in God? Or an atheist who believes in ESP, spirits, astrology, etc?

Is that correct?

DevilKisses
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05 Jan 2016, 12:54 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

DevilKisses wrote:

adifferentname wrote:

wittgenstein wrote:

Actually, "metaphysics " does not exclusively refer to the supernatural. Any system that seeks to explain/describe reality is metaphysical.

What I mean by paranormal is stuff like reiki, the law of attraction, spirits, esp or telekinesis.

I kind of use those words interchangeably. Skeptics are basically people who don't believe in ESP and spirits because there's no scientific proof.

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naturalplastic
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05 Jan 2016, 1:10 pm

DevilKisses wrote:

naturalplastic wrote:

DevilKisses wrote:

adifferentname wrote:

wittgenstein wrote:

Actually, "metaphysics " does not exclusively refer to the supernatural. Any system that seeks to explain/describe reality is metaphysical.

What I mean by paranormal is stuff like reiki, the law of attraction, spirits, esp or telekinesis.

I kind of use those words interchangeably. Skeptics are basically people who don't believe in ESP and spirits because there's no scientific proof.

So what you are asking is: "which is wierder: believing in God/gods, but NOT in anything paranormal (ESP, spirits, whatever). Or Believing in the paranormal, but NOT believing in God?"

Is that what you are asking?

Edenthiel
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05 Jan 2016, 1:15 pm

GGPViper wrote:

A belief in an extremely powerful being capable of shooting laser beams from his/her eyes, using telekinesis to move entire mountains, touching MC Hammer and moving at super-light speed may challenge what we know about the laws of physics, but such a belief does not raise the same philosophical objections as an all-powerful benevolent creator of the Universe.

Two things:
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adifferentname
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05 Jan 2016, 1:24 pm

DevilKisses wrote:

adifferentname wrote:

wittgenstein wrote:

Actually, "metaphysics " does not exclusively refer to the supernatural. Any system that seeks to explain/describe reality is metaphysical.

What I mean by paranormal is stuff like reiki, the law of attraction, spirits, esp or telekinesis.

Well, while I suppose it wouldn't be logically inconsistent, I'd consider it strange. Was your question based on an extant situation or is this purely hypothetical?

DevilKisses
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05 Jan 2016, 2:10 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

DevilKisses wrote:

naturalplastic wrote:

DevilKisses wrote:

adifferentname wrote:

wittgenstein wrote:

Actually, "metaphysics " does not exclusively refer to the supernatural. Any system that seeks to explain/describe reality is metaphysical.

What I mean by paranormal is stuff like reiki, the law of attraction, spirits, esp or telekinesis.

I kind of use those words interchangeably. Skeptics are basically people who don't believe in ESP and spirits because there's no scientific proof.

Pretty much.

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DevilKisses
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05 Jan 2016, 2:14 pm

adifferentname wrote:

DevilKisses wrote:

adifferentname wrote:

wittgenstein wrote:

Actually, "metaphysics " does not exclusively refer to the supernatural. Any system that seeks to explain/describe reality is metaphysical.

What I mean by paranormal is stuff like reiki, the law of attraction, spirits, esp or telekinesis.

Well, while I suppose it wouldn't be logically inconsistent, I'd consider it strange. Was your question based on an extant situation or is this purely hypothetical?

Kind of hypothetical and kind of real. I'm not a complete atheist, but I often doubt the existence of god and occasionally have atheist moments. I also believe in stuff like ESP. My aunt is religious, but she doesn't seem to believe in much paranormal stuff. I find her beliefs hard to understand. I bet she's mostly religious by default. Maybe that's the reason her beliefs are the way they are. Based on the polls people find my beliefs more strange.

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wittgenstein
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05 Jan 2016, 4:01 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

I meant: a force which is superior--in the sense that it is able to transcend/create phenomena---but is not conscious of its own existence.

So you believe that nothing created the universe. That there is no answer to the question,why is there something and not nothing. Not that we are too stupid to understand the answer, its that there is no answer.
If nothing can create phenomena (neither God or nature) then the universe has no cause, no explanation.

kraftiekortie
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05 Jan 2016, 5:36 pm

I believe in an infinite universe. There can never be "nothing."

Even a seeming "nothing" is a "something."

wittgenstein
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05 Jan 2016, 5:41 pm

An infinite chain of causation explains nothing. Suppose, the ancient myth is correct (this is a metaphor, not to be taken literally ), the earth rests on an elephant and that elephant on an elephant....ad infinitum. That does not explain why they are elephants and not something else,such as giant rocks.

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