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JohnPowell
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08 Feb 2016, 12:39 pm

AspieUtah wrote:

Very well said. I like him.

Great to hear man!

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JohnPowell
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08 Feb 2016, 12:52 pm

frenchmanflats wrote:

@ John Powell

If you want to get technical you have to look back at the Sykes-Picot Treaty and the Balfour Agreement which formed the state of Israel.When the state of Israel formed in 1948, there was an immediate attack Arab Forces.After Israel declared its independence on May 14, 1948, the fighting intensified with other Arab forces joining the Palestinian Arabs in attacking territory in the former Palestinian mandate. On the eve of May 14, the Arabs launched an air attack on Tel Aviv, which the Israelis resisted. This action was followed by the invasion of the former Palestinian mandate by Arab armies from Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt. Saudi Arabia sent a formation that fought under the Egyptian command. British trained forces from Transjordan eventually intervened in the conflict, but only in areas that had been designated as part of the Arab state under the United Nations Partition Plan and the corpus separatum of Jerusalem. After tense early fighting, Israeli forces, now under joint command, were able to gain the offensive.

PLO/PA
President Yasser Arafat Fatah 5 July 1994 – 11 November 2004
Mahmoud Abbas Fatah 26 January 2005 – incumbent
Prime Minister Salam Fayyad Independent (Former official at the International Monetary Fund) 14 June 2007 (Battle of Gaza (2007)) – incumbent
Ismaïl Haniyeh Hamas 19 February 2006 – 14 June 2007
Ahmad Qurei Fatah 24 December 2005 – 19 February 2006
Nabil Shaath Fatah 15 December 2005 – 24 December 2005
Ahmad Qurei Fatah 7 October 2003 – 15 December 2005
Mahmoud Abbas Fatah 19 March 2003 – 7 October 2003

They didn't form the state of Israel. The UK kept promising the land to different sides. It's true that Israel always use the Balfour Declaration, where the spineless British elite sold out to a Rothschild. That's true, you're just missing out that the Zionist forces had been going on murderous rampages from 1947, destroying villages, forcing people out of their homes and mass murdering. That's an act of war. So the "attack" by the Palestinians and other Arab armies was in response to the Zionist colonist's attack. Israel also uses the 1947 Partition Plan as a reference to yes, but after 1948, it had stolen a larger swath of Palestine, which was always the plan by early Zionist leaders.

I'm not sure why you posted that list? You made out that the PA had been around since 1948.

JohnPowell
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08 Feb 2016, 12:53 pm

frenchmanflats wrote:

@ John Powell

Just say that your anti-Zionist and everything will be OK. We will understand.

Some Zionists have been good people and fought for Palestinian rights. I'm not sure why an American would be pro-Zionist though.

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08 Feb 2016, 1:03 pm

Watch out you'll be categorized as anti-semetic if you even so much as mention that the Nazis were also guilty of humans rights violations.

No I agree I don't see how they get away with their blatant attempts at 'cleaning up' Palestine to create more 'living space' for Israelies. Raids that kill disportionate amounts of civilians compared to whatever number of targets they were actually after...reports from Isreali soldiers that they were given orders such as to just shoot anyone unarmed or not that moved that I've read of to. Sounds pretty messed up to me.

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08 Feb 2016, 1:08 pm

androbot01 wrote:

Carving out a spot in "The Holy Land" for the Jewish people may have been a necessity after WWII, but I never really understood why religion is so tied to land. I guess it's because various religious sects developed in this region, but honestly, is it really worth all the bloodshed? The Near East could be such a beautiful place and it is of tremendous historical importance. Civilization is said to have been born in the Tigris-Euphrates junction and that's important to everyone on Earth.
There's nothing to be done about it though. Both sides will continue to fight for the land until it's obliterated.

The easy answer is no, no its not worth all the bloodshed...will people in that region see this or not, I can only hope.

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JohnPowell
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08 Feb 2016, 1:31 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

Did you mean "Israel" were guilty of human rights violations?

Or did you mean Germans during the Nazi era were victims of human rights violations? I don't care though, it's like water off a duck's back now. I can say that Palestinians are also Semites and i'm defending them... or like Miko Peled instructs people to say when being labelled an anti-Semite, if you're "supporting a state that has been engaged in brutal ethnic cleansing for seven decades, what does that make you?"

"Mowing the lawn" they like to call it. Yes, they were basically told to blow up everything in site in 2008, to show Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran that Israel can be just as much as a lunatic as them. Some soldiers described the experience like playing a Playstation game, or like burning up ants with a magnifying glass. I do see how Israel gets away with it, and I don't see an end to it.

JohnPowell
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08 Feb 2016, 1:33 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

The easy answer is no, no its not worth all the bloodshed...will people in that region see this or not, I can only hope.

Israel and the US could have ended it decades ago. For the resisting people, it's up to them, and we musn't blame them for choosing to die on their feet rather than live of their knees.

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08 Feb 2016, 1:50 pm

JohnPowell wrote:

frenchmanflats wrote:

@ John Powell

Just say that your anti-Zionist and everything will be OK. We will understand.

Some Zionists have been good people and fought for Palestinian rights. I'm not sure why an American would be pro-Zionist though.

"...I'm not sure why an American would be pro-Zionist though."

Maybe we don't like people who walk into coffee shops with bomb vests on and killing and maiming innocent civilians.....over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and.....?????

Just a guess? They created their own PR with this type of perfidity. Something about this just rubs Americans "the wrong way." Can you understand this?

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08 Feb 2016, 2:05 pm

^ Keep in mind that to some people, terrorism is okey-dokey as long as the terrorist's hearts are in the right place or it fits within the narrative they have been programed to blindly follow.

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JohnPowell
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08 Feb 2016, 2:11 pm

ZenDen wrote:

JohnPowell wrote:

frenchmanflats wrote:

@ John Powell

Just say that your anti-Zionist and everything will be OK. We will understand.

Some Zionists have been good people and fought for Palestinian rights. I'm not sure why an American would be pro-Zionist though.

Don't you? You supported those types in Syria recently. You supported Afghans who threw acid in the faces of women during the 80's. You support Saudi Arabia who are blowing up schools in Yemen with your weapons. You support Israel when they blow up schools and hospitals in Gaza, pour chemical weapons over schools and hospitals in Gaza, blow up children playing football on a beach in Gaza. If you don't support the Palestinians resisting, because some lone maniacs blow themselves and civilians up, then why support state sponsored bombing of thousands of civilians?

Perhaps it's because you are paying for it with your taxes, and the American people must be kept ignorant of reality, because they wouldn't accept it otherwise, just a guess?

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08 Feb 2016, 2:18 pm

Raptor wrote:

^ Keep in mind that to some people, terrorism is okey-dokey as long as the terrorist's hearts are in the right place or it fits within the narrative they have been programed to blindly follow.

If that was aimed at me, where have I said that terrorism was "okey-dokey"? Who's "programmed" or the other "some people"? People who support Israel are a billion times more likely to be programmed. And if you're supporting Israel or the US's actions, then you are in fact saying that terrorism is "okey-dokey", just as long as we or our "allies" do it. If you look up the definition of terrorism in the dictionary and then look up what Israel's mission in Gaza was mainly about, you will soon come to terms that you are supporting terrorism.

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08 Feb 2016, 2:42 pm

I almost feel that I have to apoligize for being pro-Israel. Its as if all of these high and mighty ideals are being espoused by armchair quarterbacks. The reality is that most of the Arab countries want to wipe Zionism off the face of the earth. Israel is forced by pragmatism to have a strong and effective military. Its as if everybody forgets that all of the Arab countries in the region have ganged up and attacked Israel on numerous occasions. The big concern now is that Iran wants atomic weapons to target Israel's large cities. I don't know what the answer is but Israel cannot just pretend the problem does not exist.

frenchmanflats
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08 Feb 2016, 2:42 pm

JohnPowell

I posted the list because the first President of the PA was Yasser Arafat who was head of the PLO and sworn enemy of Israel.The ideology of the PLO was formulated in the founding year 1964 in the Palestinian National Covenant. The document is a combative anti-Zionist statement dedicated to the "restoration of the Palestinian homeland". It has no reference to religion. In 1968, the Charter was replaced by a comprehensively revised version.

Last edited by frenchmanflats on 08 Feb 2016, 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

frenchmanflats
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08 Feb 2016, 2:45 pm

@JohnPowell

Just admit you do not like Jews and supporters of the Jewish State. There were another group that did not like Jews: They were called Nazis

frenchmanflats
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08 Feb 2016, 2:54 pm

JohnPowell wrote:

frenchmanflats wrote:

@ John Powell

Just say that your anti-Zionist and everything will be OK. We will understand.

Some Zionists have been good people and fought for Palestinian rights. I'm not sure why an American would be pro-Zionist though.

America has had a pro-Zionism movement since 1897.The Zionist Organization of America (ZOA), founded in 1897, was one of the first official Zionist organizations in the United States, and, especially early in the 20th century, the primary representative of American Jews to the World Zionist Organization, espousing primarily Political Zionism

JohnPowell
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08 Feb 2016, 3:02 pm

Aspinator wrote:

That's not a bad thing. No, the reality is that every Arab state has been supporting a just resolution to the conflict since the late 70's, where as Israel and US want to control the region and its resources, and punish anyone that dares to resist. Israel chose to have a strong military way before statehood, as they knew that their state would come at the expense of the native population, via mass expulsions and murder or setting up an apartheid system. "Its as if everybody forgets that all of the Arab countries in the region have ganged up and attacked Israel on numerous occasions" I guess it's easy to forget things that aren't true. As i've already stated, Israel started the first war in 1947-48. They went after Nasser of Egypt from the 50's. They attacked Egypt in 1967. They goaded Egypt into a war in 1973, and not even the US condemned Egypt for attacking, as Israel had been given every chance to return the land they illegally stole via war. Israel went into Lebanon in 1982 to destroy the PLO. They have launched endless missions against the Palestinians and went in and attacked Lebanon again in 2006. "The big concern now is that Iran wants atomic weapons to target Israel's large cities." Do you have any evidence for that apart from Israel saying it? Israel has nukes and has threatened to use them, even against European capitals.

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