Asperger's Syndrome and The Third Eye
I am watching a lecture from him right now. Ty for the tip.
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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts
techstepgenr8tion
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Noah,
I've been in and out, off and on with this one in my life. I was keen on spirituality in my youth and teens, spent my 20's in increasing skepticism, and then in my early 30's popped out of the deepest parts of that in the other direction.
If you have hypnogogia at times that's accessible enough to be useful - use it! To work with mysticism and magic is to reach within yourself to see how you can sharpen and discipline your internal resources. Find ways to build tools out of the visual feedback you have that can walk you through some of the crisis that you aren't able to adequately work through in outer life. For bringing the visual stuff under discipline try perhaps holding increasingly complex geometric figures in this media. If you max out complexity of shapes and get tired for a while try duration with maybe 60% of that complexity to see how long you can hold a shape without it so much as rippling. One thing I decided to try, kinda hoping to sneak some probability math into my wiring, was doing mathematical permutations with imagined spheres of light on the road while I drive to work - partly because for a while I thought it would be really neat to give myself the building blocks to transfer careers from accounting to actuarial but perhaps more importantly that permutations seem to be one of the building blocks of a lot of the more advanced equations of science. Make your own brain games and see if you can top your old high scores!
On a slightly different note I often hear than when people get into the occult that it's not unusual to have something like a 3-year reading binge, I think mine stretched out to four and my books are only now starting to stack up unread just because - between work, martial arts, and actually doing specific kinds of meditation (as well as certain thing i'm doing to overcome life-long sleep problems) I'm not finding much time between.
I'm not sure what sides of esotericism you're into or whether you're more active or passive in your approach to it but regardless I'm up for chatting about it any time. We could match libraries if you like. ![]()
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The loneliest part of life: it's not just that no one is on your cloud, few can even see your cloud.
SPOILER ALERT. Liberal use of quotation marks follows, in an attempt to quantify something holy ambiguous.
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Look at this guy's theories - http://www.julianjaynes.org/ - they are quite interesting.
I agree with the thinking that the schizotypal spectrum is more likely where a "spiritual" side of oneself can be accessed.
IF there is a "spiritual" level to reality, it could be a "field" of sorts, that we have yet to fully define OR a field/ subatomic realm that is not discerned with the "five senses". To apprehend such a reality, it's possible that the person can be the instrument of reception - perceiving with the brain, a part of the brain or some part of your nervous system - or whatever. I am putting quotes around "spiritual/spirit/etc" because that's just one word for the very complex and very nebulous level of reality being discussed.
I don't think an autistic, with their analytical/systemizing myopia, could do such a thing as sense with any quality something as subtle as the "spiritual" is supposed to be.
Keep Occam's Razor with you when exploring the "spiritual" aspects of reality, it'll help you cut through the BS.
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"Alpha males are for monkeys"
"If you cannot say what you mean...you will never mean what you say"
Last edited by Dinosaw on 06 Mar 2016, 1:57 am, edited 5 times in total.
Watts is a great read. But he never mentioned this:
http://www.taoistmasterblog.com/tibetan ... g-alchemy/
By the way, interesting name. Take a look at where I live.
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"Alpha males are for monkeys"
"If you cannot say what you mean...you will never mean what you say"
I watched a lecture on religiosity and the schizo-typal personality by Sapolsky. I recognized that I have definitely seen videos of his before and he is a very intelligent, knowledgeable man and he has a wonderful way with words. However, and without making too strong of assumptions, because I am no expert in thee man, I detected that he seems to have an underlying world view of metaphysical naturalism--- which automatically rules out the super-natural. Personally, I do not subscribe to metaphysical naturalism, and therefore do not find much alignment in our conclusions. However, it is very interesting to hear the other theories about the nature of reality to continue the dialectic synthesis!! !
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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts
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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts
A lot of people talk about spiritual realms, psychic talents, and unmeasurable energies, but no one has ever been able to demonstrate any of these under controlled conditions without resorting to fakery and stage-magician's tricks.
If all it takes to convince someone is a few pretty images and some overly-verbose literature, then it's no wonder why people buy crap they don't need and vote for politicians that are ruining this country.
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The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.
I just want to be clear that in my initial post when referring to the "multi-layered, multi-channel visual nature of our fractal thinking patterns possibly being the source of things like "the third eye".. "second sight"... "shaman's sickness".. "the mystic's noetic lightning"... "the philosopher's stone"... "mind reading"... "prognostication" etc, etc.." I was not meaning to imply that one could actually do telekinesis, read specific thoughts, see the actual future, or actually see a "distinct and verifiable hidden world"...(although I am also not saying this isn't possible XD) I am only speculating that my "way of thinking"/mental world of very abstract and visual synaesthesia of highly associative and "thinking ahead", intuitive, search engine-like, creative, meaning searching, dot-connecting, highly self-aware and intensely empathic, assimilating "experiences" or "visions" could be shared by others... and if so... could this be the "secret ingredient" for somewhat rare and "visionary" type thinkers that have influenced cultures in various communities throughout the world. I understand that not everyone with Asperger's has this type of ability. However, it is fun to muse on the idea that my particular "abnormal wiring of the brain" could be the responsible for engendering my affinity for visionary, mystical minds that have expressed words that give me the most "beautiful synaesthesias of concepts."
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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts
techstepgenr8tion
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I feel bad for the group who hangs so much faith on those things. Then again maybe not always, as you mentioned there are a lot of lazy new agers out there who want this stuff to be served up like an adventure and they indeed will pay people to serve up creative BS if it strokes their egos in some way shape or form. The one I have to laugh about lately is the 'drink this! It'll decalcify your pineal gland!' - a lot of people will throw common sense out the window and go as far as poisoning themselves if someone tries selling them a shortcut.
@all:
(if tl/dr don't complain - just scroll down to the next post)
The integrity in mysticism and magic is really somewhere else, and it's in a place closer to Sam Harris's approach to Buddhism. Much like he touts what mindfulness can do for a person's grip on details and overcoming obsessions, you have people in groups like the Golden Dawn, A.'.A.'., Rosicrucian and Martinist orders, where first and foremost what they'd be doing - if performing rituals and creating planetary or archangelic talismans - is using those seven planets something like file-folders for ideas or concepts, engaging in a very detailed and nuanced ritual to have a chat with their own subconcious and stack the cards in that conversation, and then having that talisman dedicated to Jupiter, Mars, Sol, Venus, etc.. is meant almost like (well, not almost like but rather deliberately harnessing) a placebo for someone making that talisman who, say, lacked strength or presence in certain traits that one might attribute to that planet under old Ptolemaic models of the universe. Similarly invoking and evoking archangels is on the same order - grabbing a psychological trait in it's positive state, agitating it, and then calling the demon historically associated with it to meet in the middle - ie. you.
Similarly when people get into the ancient Greek stories that seem to relate to the stories of Jacob's ladder and the Sumerian descent of Ishtar to see Ereshkigal, they talk about the concentric (geocentric model of the solar system) shell of worlds around the earth and how the soul comes in by way of Saturn and gets locked into the fabric of time, and in each planet down the chain - Jupiter, Mars, Sol, Venus, Mercury, and Moon, they take on another hallucination of materiality until they land on earth in a thick stupor with no answer to the question 'What does it all mean?'. Then, like Ishtar going back up the stairs through the seven gates, that's their soul's job as well. These stories can sound quite antiquated and dopey, particularly being based on cosmological models we know not to be true, but perhaps its more interesting to look at what's symbolically attributed to those planets and take apart the puzzle of what they were trying to say about their perspective on consciousness itself and what they felt the stages meant to them.
The whole point of this though - most of your ability to govern your life is rapped in red tape. Reason can reset and adjust your motivations somewhat but there are tons of things, I think everyone agrees, that they'd love to want to do but can't find that in them. That part of your behavior and motivational fuel really gets set by subconscious patterns, to look at recent scientific research most if not all of our behavior comes from precisely that zone - ie. our thoughts and actions are formulated before they happen. In that sense magic and mysticism, on a very practical level, are hacking that and trying to get a good communication loop going back the other way, to the subconscious, telling it in it's language what the conscious life of a person needs, wants, needs to address, all because the subconscious needs symbols as that's how it processes things.
Even though I meditate on the tarot (been in BOTA now for 2 1/2 years) I'm still iffy on what I can actually do with casting cards and reading them. An author named Peter Caroll suggested that it is the subconscious mind card-counting and it's better to shuffle just for a few moments so that your deeper mind doesn't get lost on their positioning. In that case it's just another way of petitioning your subconscious for its opinions and getting a dialog ginned up. What's far more interesting to me, and this is really where Qabalistic tarot goes, is meditating on the symbols and putting them within myself as a logic map. Particular decks like the Rider Waite, BOTA, Crowley's Thoth, were very specifically thought out in terms of their constellation of meanings and they're meant to relate to one another. One of the better books out there for a beginner on what some of that is and how it works is Robert Wang's Qabalistic Tarot. All of this is a bit like how when you see someone whose a bit immature, has the facts but can't link them in the right manner - and you can see this but realize words could never convey the message of how to correct their error, this kind of symbol library is an attempt by various thinkers and schools to impart certain things they've come to experience which, in their details, just don't translate well into language. The subconscious can grasp these things through symbols but that's about it.
I guess my point being that the better side of this stuff is really an excuse for depth psychology, taking control of one's own deepest levels of emotion and motivation, no Harry Potter involved, and having a healthy agnosticism for whether or not there is actually a panentheistic panpsychic force that one actually steps into in the higher stages of this. You'd keep that agnosticism partly to fuel the placebo and partly because we really don't know, albeit by way of people like James Randi we have hunches that it isn't there on mechanical lines that can just be grabbed up be anyone who has a hunch that they can see the future and, outside of just pure mechanical reasoning with or without synaesthesia (something I think that makes people believe they're reading astral templates when really they're cold reading and don't know it), that may not be within the validity of how it works. Israel Regardie even, after decades of this stuff, said that the things he'd witness always seemed to send him back and forth on the wind in that respect - ie. he'd see something, say 'Ah - that was my own brain', believe the stuff was all just the mind utilizing hypnogogia in a waking state (it is either way - which is why nothing impressive will ever show up on camera), but then as soon as he started to get comfortable with that outlook something would happen that seemed to mechanically reach too far past himself for him to believe that it was just his brain, and then back and forth it would go. For someone who hates artistic imagery, feels like it's a breeding ground for BS, you can try short-cutting this by just trying to make it superclinical and throwing out all the woo-woo feeling stuff but you have to remember that the part of your self that you're trying deal with, deep in your brain stem, is the oldest layer of brain development, is riveted to it's primitive instincts, and you have to either come up with your own way of getting over your distaste for the abstract, otherwise the alternative is to just give up and say that this is a pursuit for a different kind of person.
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The loneliest part of life: it's not just that no one is on your cloud, few can even see your cloud.
techstepgenr8tion
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On a side note there are veteran psychics who are in some of the groups I'm in and while they don't often talk that much about what they see, and I usually stay off of certain subjects to be polite, the opinion I come to is that they really see what they claim they see. What's open to debate is whether what they're seeing is what they think they're seeing.
It's part of why when you talk about someone who is claimed to have been 'psychic from birth' or something close to that, I wouldn't put much stock in their ability to tell me the future (although I do put fair stock in their ability to tell me about my now) but at the same time I don't see them as necessarily being dishonest about their internal experiences of life. It's just that, well, having synaethesia or elements of waking hypnogogia vs. actually reaching out into some kind of aether and seeing these things as objects are two very different things that could be quite difficult to subjectively tell apart.
Where I'd disagree with a certain contingent of antitheists - their lack of ability to produce the results that they think they can in a clinical setting doesn't necessarily suggest that they're not experiencing something internally which has a striking similarity in it's behavior to what they claim. What I mean is I'm sure there are plenty of deliberate frauds who've read all the best cold-reading books and while they could have just gotten psychology degrees and done something almost exactly the same, ie. $70 an hour to talk through someone's problems without grandois claims, they just liked the atmosphere and challenge of sharking people. On the other hand if it's synaesthesia they could be doing precisely what the other person is doing, without ever having picked up a book on the subject, and if their own subconscious mind is agile enough they might never connect the dots (and I think I remember reading somewhere that James Randi bemoaned the true believer - the people who'd have meltdowns right then and there on his set as life long identities and beliefs fell down right then and there and his staff then had quite a pitiful mess to sweep up).
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The loneliest part of life: it's not just that no one is on your cloud, few can even see your cloud.
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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts
Isn't this evidence enough for spiritual realms?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5vh6-7Skvs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUK1P5x9Xak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZi3el3YB3M
With regard to those videos, I would want to examine that aspect of creative expression where you feel like you are "channeling" your art from another dimension or source.. I am very interested in Terence Mckenna's Novelty Theory... which itself draws upon a multitude of sources to "put together all of the pieces of the puzzle of the mystery of the universe." (philosophy, spirituality, mysticism, science, mathematics, and ALOT more. Basically if you are in the right place in the right time you can ride the novelty wave and literally grasp the reigns of destiny... becoming something like the quote in my sig.
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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts
Last edited by NoahYates on 06 Mar 2016, 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Christ, Gautama Siddhartha, Muhammad, and a great many other holy-men, artists, mystics, philosophers, shaman, and scientists have tapped into the energy of this wave. This is the holy ghost.
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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts
Last edited by NoahYates on 06 Mar 2016, 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
