Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

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Jo_B1_Kenobi
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28 Mar 2016, 7:01 am

GnosticBishop wrote:

Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?

Regards
DL

No, I think people have a tendancy to mess things up really bad sometimes and we need help to sort this tendency out.

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drlaugh
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28 Mar 2016, 11:28 am

For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. Romans 7:18

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Jo_B1_Kenobi
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28 Mar 2016, 1:15 pm

drlaugh wrote:

For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. Romans 7:18

Yup.

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Yigeren
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28 Mar 2016, 1:48 pm

I don't believe in any religions. I think that religions serve a purpose for those people who believe in them. As far as I'm concerned, God doesn't exist, at least not in the way people believe. I don't believe in salvation. I don't believe in hell. So yes, I believe that it's a lie. I won't go so far as to say an evil lie, because that would depend on intent.

It doesn't logically make sense to me that God would create flawed beings, and then punish them for being flawed, if that's what you mean. The idea is silly to me.

If there were a God, he created life as it is, to work together in a system as it does already. The "flaws" that humans and other creatures possess are part of our nature and part of the system. Without these flaws, the world may be much worse off, as changing one part will affect many others. Sort of like what happens when humans decide to go around changing the ecosystem by removing some species and introducing others. We aren't knowledgeable enough to see the big picture to predict what changed our interfering will have.

Plus, if everyone was good, there'd be no evil. I think evil and hardships may be a necessary part of human existence.

GnosticBishop
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07 Apr 2016, 10:22 am

Cash__ wrote:

GnosticBishop wrote:

Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?

Regards
DL

I'm not sure I would use the word 'evil', but yes I agree with the premise.

This lie is designed to cause a false guilt so that the religion might fleece its sheeple that much closer to the skin. So to speak.

How is that not evil to you?

Regards
DL

GnosticBishop
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07 Apr 2016, 10:25 am

Jo_B1_Kenobi wrote:

GnosticBishop wrote:

Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?

Regards
DL

No, I think people have a tendancy to mess things up really bad sometimes and we need help to sort this tendency out.

How does lying to people and causing false guilt helping people to not mess up?

Does lying kill the trust between people? Yes it does so how does that help things?

Do you lie to your children, for instance, to cause a false guilt for whatever issue you are speaking about above?

Regards
DL

GnosticBishop
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07 Apr 2016, 10:28 am

drlaugh wrote:

For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. Romans 7:18

Sure. But you did not speak of why the church does not have the desire t do what is good, --- as they continue to knowingly lie to their adherents.

Seems you think lying is a good think in this case.

Regards
DL

GnosticBishop
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07 Apr 2016, 10:33 am

Yigeren wrote:

Well put.

"So yes, I believe that it's a lie. I won't go so far as to say an evil lie, because that would depend on intent."

That lie creates a false sense of guilt. Such as; Jesus died for me so I must really be evil and need him to save me.

Is that not an evil intent?

I see it as a cash grab. How do you see it?

Regards
DL

nurseangela
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07 Apr 2016, 11:20 am

No.
And that's all I think needs to be said about that.

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GnosticBishop
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07 Apr 2016, 1:44 pm

nurseangela wrote:

No.
And that's all I think needs to be said about that.

This Bishop would disagree with you but swallow your religions lies if you want to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

Nature creates for the best possible end. This is demonstrable and logical.

Your religion says that the vast majority of us will end in hell while only a few of us make it to heaven.

Why does your God create with less emphasis on the best possible end of the majority?

Why for instance does he created these abominations?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_-nHw0 ... r_embedded

Why does your God create abominations?

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DL

nurseangela
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07 Apr 2016, 2:20 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:

nurseangela wrote:

No.
And that's all I think needs to be said about that.

Nothing you say will change my mind and I know nothing I say will change your mind (I was going to say unless there's a miracle, but we all have free will), so I don't see the point of this conversation - it's just going to give me a headache.

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GnosticBishop
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07 Apr 2016, 2:25 pm

nurseangela wrote:

GnosticBishop wrote:

nurseangela wrote:

No.
And that's all I think needs to be said about that.

I have that effect on those who do not like to see reality and prefer their happy little delusions.

It is quite a headache indeed to try to make an immoral God seem moral.

Regards
DL

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07 Apr 2016, 2:31 pm

I'm an atheist, but I wouldn't classify any belief or superstition as a lie. They're certainly not truth, but that's why they call them "beliefs." If we knew what the truth was, we wouldn't need beliefs.

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GnosticBishop
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07 Apr 2016, 2:41 pm

VegetableMan wrote:

Not to get into semantics too much but I think you might be mixing the use of faith and belief.

Faith is what most people have which is thinking something is real without any evidence or proof.

Belief is usually based on something even if just logic and reason.

That is why Martin Luther said this.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

Then again, I can screw up in 3 different languages and since French is my mother tongue, I will not argue your use of your own language.

Do let me know if I made a bit of sense though. :lol:

Regards
DL

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