Whoopi Goldberg is a sexist and a racist

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Whoopi's comments are tame compared to what is commonly said.

When I worked in DC, I took public transportation, and the black driver had the radio set to a popular black station.

The topic was often about how white people are racist, including make fun of white people because of their racism.

I can confirm that this is so.

I never said that individual black people are immune from being racist.

I'm sorry, but yes you do. Look at what you've said:


Why would you feel the need to state something so obvious as the fact that they are humans? Imagine what that sounds like to a black person. "Black people are humans." How is that a nice thing to say? Such a statement implies that there is reason to believe they are not human, and so therefore we must say it out loud. It is a step away from, "I think black people are humans despite the fact that they are black." It is degrading. I'm not trying to be mean here; tons of people are guilty of this, and most if not all mean well. But it is still a very strange thing to say, and it is another example of the condescending racial bias that I am referring to. We don't say such a thing about any other race of people, so we shouldn't say it about blacks.

Also, I would like to point out that all the responses to this thread so far are just further proving my point on this. At this point in the discussion, nobody except me has stated openly that they disagree with what she said, that it was indeed racist etc. Interestingly, nobody has argued that what she said is acceptable either, which I assume is because we all know it isn't. Instead, what I am seeing is people trying to minimize her actions or deflect the discussion away from her to a broader topic:

"What she said is understandable given the context, because she is presumably upset about past oppression, and so she feels apathetic about seeing a white male getting screwed by a woman for a change." Understandable? Maybe. Acceptable? Hell no. We can be somewhat understanding of a man who doesn't like black people because he was abused and traumatized at the hands of black people. Does that make his racism acceptable? Of course not.

"I believe blacks can be racist too." Yes, obviously. That is not what we are discussing; we are discussing a particular black person who said something racist to an audience of millions and was never corrected on it.

"Eh, I've seen worse." Once again, irrelevant. If one guy murders a child, and another guy rapes, murders and devours a child, do we just forget about the first guy because the second guy's actions are worse? An extreme example, yes, but my point should be clear.

All of these are deflections. It is an attempt to avoid criticizing her for her obvious idiocy. And why do we avoid criticizing her? Because we have low expectations. This is what I'm talking about. By refusing to criticize her, you are holding her to a lower standard than the rest of society. It is like affirmative action, but instead of employment or education, it's basic accountability. "She should not be held accountable; she is a black woman, so it is understandable that she would feel this way on this subject. Criticizing her would be insensitive. We should just let it slide, it's no big deal." That mentality is totally f****d up. Her behavior is completely unacceptable. She is a massive celebrity and the host of a popular women's talk show. She should be held completely responsible for her racist comment. The fact that she's a black woman should not make any difference.

But of course, because white people feel so profoundly guilty about slavery, we think we need to coddle black people to make up for it. Give them lower expectations; don't criticize them; be patronizingly kind. Try not to ever hurt their feelings or bring up touchy subjects like black-on-black crime. Treat them like children.

It's f*****g disgusting.

I think you're overdoing this a bit, frankly.

I think you need to say something relevant to the discussion or leave before I report you. I'm really getting sick of your pointless comments and ad hominem attacks. On every thread I have made recently, you have been consistently ignoring the content of my posts, and instead doing stupid s**t like stating the obvious over and over, giving me life advice, telling me I'm invalidating people's experiences, and just generally making condescending comments about me and my behavior. If you don't like what I'm saying, but don't want to make an argument addressing what you disagree with, then f**k off.

I have an opinion. I have a right to express it. And stop cursing at me, please.

People have arguments all the time. They get over it.

Not if what you are posting is against the rules. And a lot of what you've posted on my threads, probably a majority, has been against the rules of this forum. Making ad hominem attacks or ignoring the topic of discussion is against the rules. Get that through your thick skull.

You've made "ad hominem" attacks against me, too.

Let's call it even.

Enough of this.

This is unproductive, and is not getting us anywhere.

Let's just "agree to disagree" and all that.

I think about things like these sometimes:

Conversation around a water cooler.
White employee: "Hey John, how are you enjoying your work here?"
Black employee: "Sh*t, I'm lucky to have this job because the system has kept us back for so long."

At this point the white guy has a few options.
1. He can say, "What's this with you guys and 'the system kept us back'? It's 2016 man; chill."
2. The white guy thinks, "Oh sh*t, this is where I go back to my desk or this could get ugly."
3. Or think, "Dang. Why is it every time I try to say something nice to these people I always end up having to eat my words?"

In my opinion, not that anyone asked, the black employee was wrong. He just turned a simple back and forth conversation into an unnecessary battle arena. Depending on the mood I'm in, I would opt for something similar to Option 1. Yes, it could get ugly from then on, but sometimes it's just aggravating to hear the same pity party nonsense day after f*cking day.

You are the one who ignored my post and started telling me I'm "overdoing this a bit". I'm not calling it even, because you are the one being the a**hole here. If you want to have an actual discussion, then I am open to that, but you have to stop criticizing me as a person and instead address what I've said. Use the quote button and respond directly to my posts. If you are unwilling to do that, as I think you probably are, then there is no reason for you to continue commenting. Just don't respond. Go away. Stop trying to get the last word in a discussion you don't even want to be a part of.

You are trying to dictate terms.

Do you think I would allow that?

In the grand scheme of things, this discussion really doesn't matter all that much. I've said what I've said. You don't have to like it.

You just can't please the world.

Leave me alone, Jesus f*****g Christ. You are acting like a whiny child who isn't getting its way. If the discussion doesn't matter, why are you still here complaining about it? Go start a thread in the Haven if you want to be coddled.

@KK - You should leave him alone if these threads are inconsequential. You're just kicking up dust and making it uncomfortable for people to want to post in WP.

I don't find the subject matter inconsequential. I find the argument to be inconsequential.

I respect what you say....but don't you think that me "making it unpleasant for people to post on WP" to be a wee bit hyperbolic?"

I understand you're taking the other guy's side in this.

That is fine.

Maybe I deserve it.

If I offended anybody, I apologize without sarcasm.

I was hoping to be able to take part in this thread as a user, but first it seems I need to put my mod hat on.

I think this is largely a case of autistic people talking past each other, with the added bonus of very different worldviews making it even harder. So instead of telling anyone not to do XYZ in a PM, here's my reading of the thread - hopefully it helps you understand each other better.

This seems like a fairly typical Kraftie post. His posts often consist simply of lists of basic facts, attempting to be as uncontroversial as possible.

Holmes then gives a very passionate and lengthy response. He interprets Kraftie's list of facts as patronising, rather than something Kraftie does all the time. Kraftie takes Holmes's long and forcefully worded post as a sign of Holmes "overdoing" things and excluding other people from the discussion, whereas Holmes probably thought he was just being thorough and convincing.

You two clash. Kraftie is conflict averse and doesn't like heady discussions. Holmes is confrontational and thorough. You're polar opposites, in other words. It's understandable that you drive each other up the wall. Neither of you are to blame as such, it's just the way you are... but a bit of awareness could go a long way. Don't want to get involved in a detailed discussion? Don't join one. Get wound up by poster X? Try to avoid engaging with them.

Ultimately, Holmes, you crossed the line with your "get it into your thick skull" comments and calling Kraftie an a**hole. Nothing Kraftie has said to you, certainly in this thread, has come close to that. I don't think they could be called "personal attacks". Please avoid that sort of comment in future.

If anyone thinks I've massively misinterpreted what happened, then drop me a PM. Otherwise, can we get this discussion back on track?

I don't think you've engaged with my point there.

I think Goldberg was accusing the people who are getting outraged now of hypocrisy. For years, the system has been rigged against black people and women. Goldberg doesn't actually say that she got outraged about that. She just says she isn't outraged now, but that other people are, and suggests that they're only outraged now because Bernie is a white man. Why didn't they speak out for decades when no women or black people were getting close to being nominated?