Good Genes: An Argument for Eugenics

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Alliekit
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01 Dec 2016, 10:36 pm

androbot01 wrote:

Alliekit wrote:

You only have to look at dog breeds to see how problems can arise. The English bulldog was once a very proud and trim dog but now due to the lack of diversity it has become short, fat and suffers from so many problems it's just cruel.

Pugs, too, and German Shepherds. Their hind quarters have been bred to be too low and this causes lots of hip problems.
I would have to think that such things could be accommodated for with science, but it's really is over my head.

any small population is always likely to see an increase of genetic conditions or increased likelyhood of diseas because diversity is essential for life. Even in carefully controlled lab mice that must be isolated populations Wild type mice need to be introduced to keep genetic diversity.

You would in theory always need a completely different genetic variant every few generations otherwise sterility or conditions occur. And even of you did that it brings another host of issues and potential introduction of new mutations. This is why we struggle with animal models in science because you cannot bend nature to your will.

Interestingly enough this idea was practiced by the Spanish Habsburg Kings. Later in the family the became rife with meducal conditions and it wiped put the whole family.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/amp.livesc ... -orange-gb

Here is a pretty good article on that family

auntblabby
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01 Dec 2016, 10:42 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

...the progeny of "smart" people, many times, don't come out "smart" at all.

ah, that's the rub, mother nature has a few tricks up her sleeve to thwart the best-laid plans of mere humans who fancy themselves as such clever things. :razz:

ASPartOfMe
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02 Dec 2016, 1:31 am

Ah Yes, "The Best and The Brightist" have made this such a wonderful world :lol: . I think the world would be a better place if "defective" painfully slow analytical thinkers had more sway then those talented at multitasking and small talk gossiping, ahem networking.

I have seen those "ret*d" groups in stores, they looked pretty happy to me, I have known poor people who have been happier then rich people I have known, but what do me a person who never should have been born know?

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ASPartOfMe
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02 Dec 2016, 1:40 am

naturalplastic wrote:

A person who frequents an autism website (and whom presumably is dxd as ASD) advocating eugenics.

That's rich!

What stunt are you planning next?

Going to a Klan meeting wearing a BLM tee shirt?

Or maybe going to a BLM meeting wearing a Klan hood?

Or this

. I know, poor taste but this scene from Die Hard 3 came immediatly to mind and I could not resist

androbot01
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02 Dec 2016, 3:31 am

So because I am disabled I am not supposed to discuss eugenics? Why not? I can be aware that I am a not a prime specimen.
Is it better for everyone to deny this reality to me because it might hurt my feelings. It is what it is; I can be aware of something that is unpleasant to me.
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AspieUtah
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02 Dec 2016, 8:09 am

CockneyRebel wrote:

AspieUtah wrote:

If eugenics is such a great idea, according to some, I say "let you and yours be the first in line."

Many hateful ideas can be destroyed with the phrase "you first."

That's exactly what I was thinking. I should try that on such people and see how it works.

I *love* your newest avatar image, CockneyRebel! Perfect for the season.

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CockneyRebel
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02 Dec 2016, 8:12 am

AspieUtah wrote:

CockneyRebel wrote:

AspieUtah wrote:

If eugenics is such a great idea, according to some, I say "let you and yours be the first in line."

Many hateful ideas can be destroyed with the phrase "you first."

That's exactly what I was thinking. I should try that on such people and see how it works.

I *love* your newest avatar image, CockneyRebel! Perfect for the season.

Thank you. I've always loved your avatar.

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androbot01
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02 Dec 2016, 8:20 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:

I have seen those "ret*d" groups in stores, they looked pretty happy to me, I have known poor people who have been happier then rich people I have known, but what do me a person who never should have been born know?

It's not really about happiness. It's about the society as a whole and what's best for humanity.

AspieUtah
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02 Dec 2016, 8:21 am

CockneyRebel wrote:

AspieUtah wrote:

CockneyRebel wrote:

AspieUtah wrote:

If eugenics is such a great idea, according to some, I say "let you and yours be the first in line."

Many hateful ideas can be destroyed with the phrase "you first."

That's exactly what I was thinking. I should try that on such people and see how it works.

I *love* your newest avatar image, CockneyRebel! Perfect for the season.

Thank you. I've always loved your avatar.

"Oh, that's alright. He can call me a flower if he wants to" --Flower (Bambie).

Thanks!

androbot01
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02 Dec 2016, 8:30 am

Okay, so we've established that the two of you like each others avatars. Yay! They're both lovely.

What I don't understand is the hostility to my topic. Are we not to discuss matters like this for fear of devaluing our lives? I think the knee jerk response I am getting is coming out of fear. We can't pretend that disability is not a drain. And eugenics will be an issue as science increases its knowledge. It will likely be left to the parents to decide, which is fine.

But I just don't see the point of bringing people into the world who won't be able to fully participate.

Alliekit
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02 Dec 2016, 8:31 am

androbot01 wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

It's not really about happiness. It's about the society as a whole and what's best for humanity.

But it isn't

androbot01
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02 Dec 2016, 8:38 am

Alliekit wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

It's not really about happiness. It's about the society as a whole and what's best for humanity.

But it isn't

Isn't that the purpose of procreation - the advancement of the species?

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02 Dec 2016, 8:46 am

androbot01 wrote:

Isn't that the purpose of procreation - the advancement of the species?

No. The purpose of procreation is to have children, or, if you really want to look into it, to ensure the survival of your genes. Organisms do not operate on species levels.

androbot01
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02 Dec 2016, 8:54 am

The_Walrus wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

Isn't that the purpose of procreation - the advancement of the species?

No. The purpose of procreation is to have children, or, if you really want to look into it, to ensure the survival of your genes. Organisms do not operate on species levels.

I'll take your word for it.

So what I am hearing is that having children is in the interest of a couple for their own advancement within the species. So it follows from this that individuals with poor genes will want to procreate for their own personal advancement, even if it is a detriment to the greater functioning of the species.
This is where the problem happens - the species becomes overwhelmed with ill-functioning participants. I think this is where incentives to not procreate should be introduced.
It is in the couple's greater interest that they should live in a well-functioning society than that they should have their own offspring.

Alliekit
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02 Dec 2016, 9:25 am

androbot01 wrote:

Alliekit wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

It's not really about happiness. It's about the society as a whole and what's best for humanity.

But it isn't

Isn't that the purpose of procreation - the advancement of the species?

Actually when looking for a mate you are attracted to people who are completely differvent in terms of genetics. The purpose is to increase diversity in order to introduce mutations which contribute to the evolution of the species.

Eugenics would lead to stagnation of the species

androbot01
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02 Dec 2016, 9:47 am

Alliekit wrote:

...Eugenics would lead to stagnation of the species

Well, that wouldn't be good. It would be ironic since the idea is for the species to develop.

It seems from this discussion that there is a seam between the individual and the civilization which I don't understand. This could be because my social circle is small (tiny) so I rely on society for identification. I could go and live in a cabin in the woods, which I still may do one day.

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