The Book of Revelation

Post Reply New Topic

Which is how they so artfully borrowed from Daniel.

The book of Revelation is an apocalyptic work.

"Apocalypse" (ἀποκάλυψις) is a Greek word meaning "revelation", "an unveiling or unfolding of things not previously known and which could not be known apart from the unveiling."[1] As a genre, apocalyptic literature details the authors' visions of the end times as revealed by an angel or other heavenly messenger.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalyptic_literature

Personally, i would say that written works that include unfulfilled prophecies within them could arguably be considered the cause of a great deal of the world's problems.

Judaism and Christianity are apocalyptic or prophetic religions by nature, and some interpretations of Islam put a great deal of emphasis on "the end of times" prophecies which were predicted in a book written after the Qur'an.
It is indeed these prophecies that are motivating many of the people who belong to controversial and extremist Islamic groups to commit violent and tragic acts. This, i feel is terrible. Although i do realise that the state of the world is also presently terrible.

In terms of Christianity, prophetic works have for centuries motivated people to act, sometimes because they genuinely feel it the right thing to do but also at times, because they have been manipulation to do so by bogus religious leader con men, who have used the power of religion and faith as weapons against them to get these desperate people to do their bidding, exploiting them in the process, for power, for financial gain or for other purposes.

I personally think that the world may be a better place if the world did not have all these books.
As although i agree that religion and faith can bring a lot of peace, and happiness to people.
I also think that it can also enslave and be used to abuse and exploit the innocent.

I am not a nazi nor a neo nazi supporter in any way. But I do sometimes wonder what the world be like if the entire world did live to one creed. (although i am not saying here that we should all be race supremacists. No way).
Just wonder if everyone was thinking in the same way, we would all get on a bit better.

Revelations almost didn't make the vote at the Council of Nicea. Luther also wanted to cut it out. In this case I think it might have been okay if it had been deemphasized to a status similar to deuterocanon. Taking it as the spearhead of future activity deformed the context of the gospels IMHO and clearly gave rise to a lot of irrational behavior, most notably in the aftermath of the Bubonic Plague of the 14th century.

As far as the barbaric nature of apocalypses though, I wouldn't say this is the case in all situations. A good example of an apocalypse with a much more gentle touch but ringing with mystic profundity is the Divine Pymander. Valentinus's Tripartite Tractate is also quite beautiful.



I'd disagree because our present story more than anything goes to show that none of these religions are completely baked in terms of their reasoning and reconciliation of subject and object, nor do they have a comprehensive grasp on the practical matters such as how to run a society. One fixed dogma would mean a load of unrelinquishable intellectual baggage that would have most likely halted social progress or just broken us back out to a world of multiple religions.

If it were Judaism that won such a gambit the world would go dark every Saturday or our homes would be loaded with mechanical workarounds, and possible worst-case we'd be stoning adulturers, children who disobey, etc.. If it were the Christians, particularly the RCC, the situation of the middle ages would have spread across the world. If it were Islam we'd have sharia, possibly including hudood, as our religious, governmental, and financial system and we'd only not be killing each other if Sunnism or Shiism were all that there was. If we were Hindus we'd have a super-rigid global caste system where you could be put to death for stepping on the shadow of a Brahman and possibly we'd still be burning very live widow on their husband's funeral pyres and sending the aged to go wander in the desert until they die from hunger, thirst, exposure, etc.. I don't know a whole lot about the barbarities of Buddhism but if it were of the Chinese flavor we'd have a theocracy under Confusion philosophy which is rather austere living and seems to advocate social conformity with beatings.

All of these systems seem to have worthwhile insights at their cores, just that you won't get them on the surface layer in all cases and to people under duress or fighting nihilism the more warlike aspects of the doctrines end up giving them their meaning in life which needless to say can get quite nasty.

We Lutherans, and most mainline Protestants, as well as Catholics, see Revelations as a very minor book, about things that are largely in the past, not the future. That, and both Martin Luther and John Calvin believed the book should never have been canonized, and that it had not been divinely inspired.

The whole world seeing the dead two witnesses:

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.


What before would have seemed symbolic (How could the whole world "see" two dead guys?) is now able to be literal with the Internet, 24/7 news cycles, Youtube, social media, etc.


The Mark of the Beast:

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.


The key phrase is that nobody might buy or sell without the mark. But how would someone enforce this? The answer is simple: a global cashless currency. Think a credit card built into this "mark" thing. Then nobody could use cash and the government could track every purchase. The only way around this system would be to go back to bartering to survive. All a New World Order would have to do is crash all the world currencies, which would help bring about global instability (as though the plagues and wars from the previous chapter weren't enough!! !) and they could take over from a global crisis.

Cashless currency is already being talked about: http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/02/technol ... y-denmark/


The Number 666:

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

I'm not sure on Nero or that, though the Antichrist/Beast is likely to be Roman I heard, Nero has anything to do with the 666 number, but I do have a theory. Mankind was created on the 6th day. The Antichrist and the False Prophet are men. Assuming, and this is quite possible, Satan (the Dragon) was created on the 6th day also, (and we know that 7 and 7 days are perfection in God's eyes, so 6 would NOT be perfection), that the 666 is actually a reference to a counterfeit Trinity with Satan as God the Father, the Antichrist as God the Son, and the False Prophet as God the Holy Spirit. Satan's One World Government would be a counterfeit of the Millennium reign of Christ (though luckily Satan's reign doesn't last 1000 years!! !!)

Exactly, I'm not really religious either, but I'm also worried that the end is really near. I fear because I never felt like I really got to live a life on Earth.

I see some common misunderstandings.



The interpretation, that Rev was fulfilled in 69-70AD, is called "Preterism," and is considered a heresy, in the normative, Christian mainstream. (No offense taken. Just saying.)





Respectfully, this allows for them to be literal locusts.



Some say the barcode is the mark, the SSN, Reagan's first, middle, and last name because they had 6 letters each, Sunday worship, and paper money.

Verichip / Xmark seems to be the most-obvious candidate, but, whatever-it-is would be required in the right hand or forehead, of all who would buy or sell.

I am careful, not to be too dogmatic, not too specific. You run the risk of people thinking it's not the real thing, if it's not what they expected. In general, I wouldn't take any mark, whatever it turns out to be.



That is another common heresy, called Dominionism.

But, the Bible never says that prosperity preachers will deliver the world to Christ, to reign for 1,000 yrs. It says there would be a great falling-away, or apostasy.

Now, this makes it a little more nuanced --

That Greek "anti" as in Antichrist.

Are there any linguists, here?

"Anti" did not always mean a diametrical opposite.

To the best of my understanding, it can mean a fake or fraud, as in a substitute Christ.

He doesn't look like the guy on that box of Red Hots, but like a lamb.

You have these Dominionsts, falsely claiming that Christians take over.

Followed by a fake Jesus?

When they start implanting tracker chips in people's head I sure hope I get tracker chip number 666

Are you a Christian Dominionist?

No.

I don't even know that that is.

That's a theology popular among evangelicals in which Christianity dominates all culture, science, entertainment, politics, ecology, education, everything in fact, in order to usher in Christ's millennial reign. Ted Cruz and his old man are part of this theology, as are many of Trump's evangelical support. The aim is to usher in a theocracy.

Strange because the Bible says a certain set of prophecies must be fulfilled before Christ's return. Christianity dominating all culture, science, entertainment, politics, ecology, education and everything is not one of among them (the closest is the prophecy that the gospel will be preached all over the world matthew 24:14).

It seems like these Evangelicals haven't actually read the Bible. They don't seem to understand what's actually in the Bible.

That's my take on it.

If you concern is the connectedness of everything, the loss of privacy etc and you think Revelations is "largely ridiculous" why then do you start of by saying the book "genuinely scares you" you then go on to basically dismiss the academic stance on its historical context, completely ignoring that context bringing the book into modern times linking horse like noises to helicopters in flight and the numerical sum for "Nero" into some insidious plot to have us all bear the mark via RFD chips and the like. Taken out of historical context the book is not "largely ridiculous" it is COMPLETELY ridiculous. And from reading your posts on this you are either very confused about what you actually believe or simply unable to make a cohesive honest argument for what you believe.

I'm pretty sure the ones "dominating all culture, science, entertainment, politics, ecology, education and everything" are supposed to be on the other team. Maybe Ted and palls are on the other team?

Forgive me for being dense, but... huh?