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America needs to become a protectorate

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Raptor
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04 Jan 2017, 6:56 pm

leejosepho wrote:
Fogman wrote:
Every soldier who is in the US military swears an oath to protect, defend and uphold the US Constitution, not the US Government.

Understood, and then at least some of those same soldiers are trained for urban warfare with full knowledge of the possibility of having to raise arms against fellow citizens. I do not have any kind of axe to grind and I do not mean to stir trouble or controversy, yet the fact does remain that we citizens could never even come close to being successful if ever trying to do what the second amendment is all about.

What citizens of a mind can do is wreak havoc for a standing army and its government by guerrilla warfare (e.g. ambushes, booby traps and IED's, sniping, sabotage, etc.).

leejosepho wrote:
sly279 wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
Fogman wrote:
Every soldier who is in the US military swears an oath to protect, defend and uphold the US Constitution, not the US Government.

Understood, and then at least some of those same soldiers are trained for urban warfare with full knowledge of the possibility of having to raise arms against fellow citizens.

In order to stop a citizen uprising the government would have to wipe whole cities off the map...

Use of the second amendment to quash a tyrannical government was an excellent, theoretical idea when the constitution was first written, but the civil war has since proved it is not plausible. So, naturalplastic might have the better ideas here...

The civil war was fought with the wrong tactics.


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Raptor
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04 Jan 2017, 7:00 pm

leejosepho wrote:
sly279 wrote:
You don't understand that a militia trying to overthrow a government don't have to fight like a military...

Then the second amendment should never have even been mentioned in this thread. But either way, what I do or do not understand is completely off-topic.


It was a pointless and frivolous thread to begin with so derailing it can only help.


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sly279
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04 Jan 2017, 8:29 pm

leejosepho wrote:
sly279 wrote:
You don't understand that a militia trying to overthrow a government don't have to fight like a military...

Then the second amendment should never have even been mentioned in this thread. But either way, what I do or do not understand is completely off-topic.

I didn't bring up the topic of weather a civil war could happen, I only engaged it.



Fogman
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04 Jan 2017, 8:42 pm

Raptor wrote:
What citizens of a mind can do is wreak havoc for a standing army and its government by guerrilla warfare (e.g. ambushes, booby traps and IED's, sniping, sabotage, etc.).


Yup. It's how we fought the English in the 18th century, it's how the Vietnamese fought against us, and how the Afghani's fought both Russia and us. It's also how Iraqi's fought us. We got the territory, but not the minds of the people.


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leejosepho
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05 Jan 2017, 7:04 am

Raptor wrote:
It was a pointless and frivolous thread to begin with so derailing it can only help.

Well, that makes me feel a bit better! Mostly, however, I have been wanting to avoid any kind of discussion that could sound like anyone here is planning to attempt any oust of any kind.

sly279 wrote:
I didn't bring up the topic...

Understood.

Raptor wrote:
What citizens of a mind can do is wreak havoc for a standing army and its government by guerrilla warfare (e.g. ambushes, booby traps and IED's, sniping, sabotage, etc.).

There is where I first saw impossibility: "a standing army and its government" = "a government and its standing army". That "standing army" is already trained to deal with guerrilla warfare in cities and 'burbs, and no second-amendment militia could ever cry "Defend the Constitution!" loudly enough to convince it to turn around and begin shooting in the other direction.


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05 Jan 2017, 5:39 pm

beneficii wrote:
Like, how did we get to this screwed up confluence of policies? Simply put, Americans don't know how to govern and require the protection of more enlightened powers.

Which ones, and how have they shown their superior ability.



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06 Jan 2017, 11:10 am

I know! America could model itself on Switzerland, with autonomous sub-national governments, a heavily armed population, and an isolationist foreign policy!



friedmacguffins
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06 Jan 2017, 11:37 am

Magneto wrote:
I know! America could model itself on Switzerland, with autonomous sub-national governments, a heavily armed population, and an isolationist foreign policy!


(The opposite of a protectorate.)

I like.

Have you ever noticed they are the people, who you were supposed to trust with your money, and who made good things, and were energy independent, and could clean up after themselves...



beneficii
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11 Jan 2017, 6:44 am

Magneto wrote:
I know! America could model itself on Switzerland, with autonomous sub-national governments, a heavily armed population, and an isolationist foreign policy!


I can dig it.


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Jacoby
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11 Jan 2017, 6:53 am

I like Switzerland :)



naturalplastic
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11 Jan 2017, 6:56 am

Belgium is kinda run that way too.

The northern Flemish speaking part has its own domestic government, and the southern French speaking part, its own as well. And there is a central government that does foreign policy, and defense, for both.

So we could subdivide the US into regions like that (this group of blue states here, and that group of red states there), and do it like Belgium (or Switzerland).



Jacoby
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11 Jan 2017, 7:28 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Belgium is kinda run that way too.

The northern Flemish speaking part has its own domestic government, and the southern French speaking part, its own as well. And there is a central government that does foreign policy, and defense, for both.

So we could subdivide the US into regions like that (this group of blue states here, and that group of red states there), and do it like Belgium (or Switzerland).


I don't think anybody looks at Belgium as a model to run a country however, they are pretty dysfunctional and may eventually end up splitting.

Switzerland is interesting because of it's direct democracy and militia system, they weren't even apart of the UN until not too long ago but it seems like Swiss isolationism isn't what it was in the past.