The WTC is a structure with an inner core of steel and outer core of aluminum. The plane makes the hole; the jet fuel is the heat source. It's basically a giant blacksmith's bellows... of course it would fall... it's supposed to if that happens! Steel loses 50% of its integrity at 1100 degrees which is enough to make steel to lose half it's strength, the upper floors are a weight it can no longer hold and the rest is physics.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
Liberals and the media tend to blame Bush, but 9/11 resulted from Clinton foreign policy. Because of Congress' recalcitrance, Bush barely had his cabinet in place by September. But Clinton had let slide several embassy bombings, USS Cole and an attempt on the Twin Towers, serving to encourage anti-American sentiment. He also separated the FBI from the CIA, exacerbating intelligence problems.
Also, in mid-1996, President Clinton tasked Al Gore, to lead the White House Commission on Aviation Safety and Security and assigned it three specific mandates: to look at the changing security threat, and how the US could address it; to examine changes in the aviation industry, and how government should adapt its regulation of it; to look at the technological changes coming to air traffic control, and what should be done to take best advantage of them.
In the wake of concerns over the crash of Trans World Airlines Flight 800, Clinton asked the commission to focus its attention first on the issue of security.
From its inception, the commission took a hands-on approach to its work. Gore led a site visit to Dulles International Airport where he and other commissioners saw airport and airline operations firsthand, and discussed issues with front line workers. This was the first of dozens of such visits. Over the next six months, the commission visited facilities throughout the United States and in various locations abroad.
The Gore Commission held six public meetings, hearing from over fifty witnesses representing a cross section of the aviation industry and the public, including families of victims of air disasters. Recognizing the global nature of aviation, the commission cosponsored an International Conference on Aviation Safety and Security with the George Washington University. More than 700 representatives from sixty-one countries attended.
There were a number of recommendations made the by Gore Commission, whose commissioners included family members of the victims of Flight 800. The recommendations included several measures to improve screening company performance, including a national job grade structure for screeners/security officers and meaningful measures to reward employees. It also called for airlines to hire security companies on the basis of performance, not the lowest bidder.
The Gore Commission called for criminal background and FBI fingerprint checks for all airport and airline workers who screen passengers for weapons or have access to secure areas. The airlines industry had long opposed mandatory criminal checks.
Two weeks later, as reported in the Boston Globe, Gore retreated from his own commission's proposals in a letter to Carol B. Hallett, president of the industry's trade group, the Air Transport Association.
''I want to make it very clear that it is not the intent of this administration or of the commission to create a hardship for the air transportation industry or to cause inconvenience to the traveling public,'' Gore wrote. To reassure Hallett, Gore added that the FAA would develop ''a draft test concept ... in full partnership with representatives of the airline industry."
The day after Gore's letter to the Air Transport Association, Trans World Airlines donated $40,000 to the Democrat National Committee. By the time of the presidential election, other airlines had poured large donations into Democrat Party committees: $265,000 from American Airlines, $120,000 from Delta Air Lines, $115,000 from United Air Lines, $87,000 from Northwest Airlines, according to an analysis done for the Boston Globe by the Center for Responsive Politics, which tracks donations. A total of $627,000 was donated to the Democrats by major airlines.
Two of the commission members -- Victoria Cummock and Kathleen Flynn, who lost loved ones in the terrorist attack on Flight 800 -- believe that campaign contributions by the airline industry were a direct result of Al Gore backing away from the commission's security recommendations. The mainstream news media never reminded Al Gore of this flagrant example of homeland security taking a back-seat to campaign cash, yet they delighted in quoting his frequent fever-pitched rants.
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,637
Location: Long Island, New York
I am a 9/11 "Let It Happen" conspiracy theorist. The Bush and Bin Ladin families had a 30-year business releationship prior to 9/11. I have a hard time believing that the Bin Ladin family members did not know what their relative Osama was up to and that they would not have told the Bush's about it. The Bush's had a number of motivations to want to start a war but knew that between substantial latent "Vietnam Syndrome" and post-Cold war complacency this would be difficult and a "new Pearl Harbor" was needed.
That said I do not believe the towers were knocked down by controlled demolition. Doing that posed a substantial risk of the explosives team being caught, getting cold feet, or a getting a conscience. Having the planes destroy the top part of the towers and it staying like that month after month as they decided how to take them down and actually take them down making lower Manhatten unusable for months on end would have been more than enough to get the public to support war and impairment of freedoms.
_________________
“Self Acceptance is a process not a performance”
“You are autistic enough. And you always have been”
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.
leejosepho
Veteran
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,011
Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock
Having the planes destroy the top part of the towers and it staying like that month after month...would have been more than enough to get the public to support war and impairment of freedoms.
Are you saying no controlled demolition and yet the planes alone would not have been enough?
_________________
I began looking for someone like me when I was five ...
My search ended at 59 ... right here on WrongPlanet.
==================================
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
Also, in mid-1996, President Clinton tasked Al Gore, to lead the White House Commission on Aviation Safety and Security and assigned it three specific mandates: to look at the changing security threat, and how the US could address it; to examine changes in the aviation industry, and how government should adapt its regulation of it; to look at the technological changes coming to air traffic control, and what should be done to take best advantage of them.
In the wake of concerns over the crash of Trans World Airlines Flight 800, Clinton asked the commission to focus its attention first on the issue of security.
From its inception, the commission took a hands-on approach to its work. Gore led a site visit to Dulles International Airport where he and other commissioners saw airport and airline operations firsthand, and discussed issues with front line workers. This was the first of dozens of such visits. Over the next six months, the commission visited facilities throughout the United States and in various locations abroad.
The Gore Commission held six public meetings, hearing from over fifty witnesses representing a cross section of the aviation industry and the public, including families of victims of air disasters. Recognizing the global nature of aviation, the commission cosponsored an International Conference on Aviation Safety and Security with the George Washington University. More than 700 representatives from sixty-one countries attended.
There were a number of recommendations made the by Gore Commission, whose commissioners included family members of the victims of Flight 800. The recommendations included several measures to improve screening company performance, including a national job grade structure for screeners/security officers and meaningful measures to reward employees. It also called for airlines to hire security companies on the basis of performance, not the lowest bidder.
The Gore Commission called for criminal background and FBI fingerprint checks for all airport and airline workers who screen passengers for weapons or have access to secure areas. The airlines industry had long opposed mandatory criminal checks.
Two weeks later, as reported in the Boston Globe, Gore retreated from his own commission's proposals in a letter to Carol B. Hallett, president of the industry's trade group, the Air Transport Association.
''I want to make it very clear that it is not the intent of this administration or of the commission to create a hardship for the air transportation industry or to cause inconvenience to the traveling public,'' Gore wrote. To reassure Hallett, Gore added that the FAA would develop ''a draft test concept ... in full partnership with representatives of the airline industry."
The day after Gore's letter to the Air Transport Association, Trans World Airlines donated $40,000 to the Democrat National Committee. By the time of the presidential election, other airlines had poured large donations into Democrat Party committees: $265,000 from American Airlines, $120,000 from Delta Air Lines, $115,000 from United Air Lines, $87,000 from Northwest Airlines, according to an analysis done for the Boston Globe by the Center for Responsive Politics, which tracks donations. A total of $627,000 was donated to the Democrats by major airlines.
Two of the commission members -- Victoria Cummock and Kathleen Flynn, who lost loved ones in the terrorist attack on Flight 800 -- believe that campaign contributions by the airline industry were a direct result of Al Gore backing away from the commission's security recommendations. The mainstream news media never reminded Al Gore of this flagrant example of homeland security taking a back-seat to campaign cash, yet they delighted in quoting his frequent fever-pitched rants.
The person directly responsible for 9/11 wasn't Bill Clinton, or George W. Bush, but Osama Bin Laden. All this partisan blaming does nothing but destract from reverence for the dead.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,637
Location: Long Island, New York
Having the planes destroy the top part of the towers and it staying like that month after month...would have been more than enough to get the public to support war and impairment of freedoms.
Are you saying no controlled demolition and yet the planes alone would not have been enough?
I am saying I believe there was no controlled demolition and the planes were enough and would have been enough even if the towers did not fall. I do believe the attack was more "successful" than expected.
Bin Laden didn't expect New York towers to fall
_________________
“Self Acceptance is a process not a performance”
“You are autistic enough. And you always have been”
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,637
Location: Long Island, New York
Also, in mid-1996, President Clinton tasked Al Gore, to lead the White House Commission on Aviation Safety and Security and assigned it three specific mandates: to look at the changing security threat, and how the US could address it; to examine changes in the aviation industry, and how government should adapt its regulation of it; to look at the technological changes coming to air traffic control, and what should be done to take best advantage of them.
In the wake of concerns over the crash of Trans World Airlines Flight 800, Clinton asked the commission to focus its attention first on the issue of security.
From its inception, the commission took a hands-on approach to its work. Gore led a site visit to Dulles International Airport where he and other commissioners saw airport and airline operations firsthand, and discussed issues with front line workers. This was the first of dozens of such visits. Over the next six months, the commission visited facilities throughout the United States and in various locations abroad.
The Gore Commission held six public meetings, hearing from over fifty witnesses representing a cross section of the aviation industry and the public, including families of victims of air disasters. Recognizing the global nature of aviation, the commission cosponsored an International Conference on Aviation Safety and Security with the George Washington University. More than 700 representatives from sixty-one countries attended.
There were a number of recommendations made the by Gore Commission, whose commissioners included family members of the victims of Flight 800. The recommendations included several measures to improve screening company performance, including a national job grade structure for screeners/security officers and meaningful measures to reward employees. It also called for airlines to hire security companies on the basis of performance, not the lowest bidder.
The Gore Commission called for criminal background and FBI fingerprint checks for all airport and airline workers who screen passengers for weapons or have access to secure areas. The airlines industry had long opposed mandatory criminal checks.
Two weeks later, as reported in the Boston Globe, Gore retreated from his own commission's proposals in a letter to Carol B. Hallett, president of the industry's trade group, the Air Transport Association.
''I want to make it very clear that it is not the intent of this administration or of the commission to create a hardship for the air transportation industry or to cause inconvenience to the traveling public,'' Gore wrote. To reassure Hallett, Gore added that the FAA would develop ''a draft test concept ... in full partnership with representatives of the airline industry."
The day after Gore's letter to the Air Transport Association, Trans World Airlines donated $40,000 to the Democrat National Committee. By the time of the presidential election, other airlines had poured large donations into Democrat Party committees: $265,000 from American Airlines, $120,000 from Delta Air Lines, $115,000 from United Air Lines, $87,000 from Northwest Airlines, according to an analysis done for the Boston Globe by the Center for Responsive Politics, which tracks donations. A total of $627,000 was donated to the Democrats by major airlines.
Two of the commission members -- Victoria Cummock and Kathleen Flynn, who lost loved ones in the terrorist attack on Flight 800 -- believe that campaign contributions by the airline industry were a direct result of Al Gore backing away from the commission's security recommendations. The mainstream news media never reminded Al Gore of this flagrant example of homeland security taking a back-seat to campaign cash, yet they delighted in quoting his frequent fever-pitched rants.
The person directly responsible for 9/11 wasn't Bill Clinton, or George W. Bush, but Osama Bin Laden. All this partisan blaming does nothing but destract from reverence for the dead.
Respecting the dead would have been a proper investigation of the Bush-Bin Ladin family business relationships. Respecting the dead would have been investigating certain firm where Bush's brother Marvin was on the board of directors until the year 2000. That firm provided security for United Airlines and the World Trade Center. Respecting the dead would have been investigating why dozens of Bin Ladin family members were allowed to leave in the weeks after 9/11 and if it had something to do with the Bush - Bin Ladin family relationships. Respecting the dead would have meant not accepting at face value the claim by Obama he ordered the assasination of Osama. Somebody was supposedly thrown into the ocean where conveniently nobody can verify if it was Osama.
The 9/11 truth movement was a waste of time. America did not and does not want to know in part for partison reasons. Why Republicans would not have want Bush proven to have let or made it happen is obvoius. For the liberals to have to admit Bush had something to do with it would destroy the central part of the progressive dogma, namily Bush is a moron who would be utterly incapable of such a complicated thing. They accepted he was smart enough to deliberately lie and manufacture evidence of Iraqi WMD's but he is too dumb to pull off 9/11? Beyond partisanship there is this weird belief the while our government is made up by scheming crooks they would never never go that far. And now Bush Jr. is long out of office, the family has been kicked out of thier party and Bush Sr. is a sympathetic sick older gent.
I am convinced those killed and disabled by 9/11 will not get justice in my lifetime for the reasons listed above. Hopefully some historians at some future date will respect those affected by 9/11.
_________________
“Self Acceptance is a process not a performance”
“You are autistic enough. And you always have been”
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.
leejosepho
Veteran
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,011
Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock
I am convinced those killed and disabled by 9/11 will not get justice in my lifetime for the reasons listed above. Hopefully some historians at some future date will respect those affected by 9/11.
You remind me a bit of the late Dr. Stan Monteith of "Radio Liberty". I do not know what he used to say about 9/11, but his overall approach to things was to step back and look without being distracted by "conspiracy theory" or anyone's spin.
_________________
I began looking for someone like me when I was five ...
My search ended at 59 ... right here on WrongPlanet.
==================================
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,637
Location: Long Island, New York
I am convinced those killed and disabled by 9/11 will not get justice in my lifetime for the reasons listed above. Hopefully, some historians at some future date will respect those affected by 9/11.
You remind me a bit of the late Dr. Stan Monteith of "Radio Liberty". I do not know what he used to say about 9/11, but his overall approach to things was to step back and look without being distracted by "conspiracy theory" or anyone's spin.
Thank you. I try to approach things this way though not always successfully because emotions, personal experience and biasis are powerful. The success I have had with this approach is because of my Aspie logical thinking superpower(LOL)
_________________
“Self Acceptance is a process not a performance”
“You are autistic enough. And you always have been”
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.
