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Do you know that the God of the Bible exists?

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Do you know that the God of the Bible exists?
yes 28%  28%  [ 5 ]
no 72%  72%  [ 13 ]
Total votes : 18

Ragtime
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02 Jun 2007, 3:50 pm

Mitch8817 wrote:
The knowledge of the brain eh? Seeing as those with AS are based purely on logic, that puts us at quite a disadvantage.

Further, imagine if you were born in India. It would be almost certain that you would believe in whatever Hindu God's they have. A Christian comes along and tries to convert you, to which you obviously decline as your faith is so powerful. You believe it with your whole essence. You live a moral and respectful life, you say your daily prayers and do all that your God has laid out for you in your holy text.

Then you burn in a Christian Hell for eternity. How is that fair? Where is the kind, just, loving and eternally forgiving God now? Being born in India was out of his hands. It's all up to chance what religion you believe/don't believe in.

As such, being a good person by one's own understanding should be more than enough to qualify for whatever heaven does exist. I was just 'unlucky' that I was born into an atheist household and believe what my parents do. I should not be punished for following my beliefs to the best of my knowledge.

Would you be content burning in a Hindu hell if it turned out that that was the true religion?


It's actually not that black-and-white. God is a God of mercy, as He sees fit, so there is the throwing yourself on the mercy of the court thing that anyone can do. If you're willing to risk it, you can make you case to God on judgment day, that no one told you about Him, you didn't have access to a Bible, etc. He is merciful beyond His law, as He sees fit, but never harsher than His law.



Kosmonaut
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02 Jun 2007, 3:52 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Sorry, I'm doing this all on a li'l Blackberry -- I didn't mean to transfer Kosmo's title of Out-Of-Context-Man to you. My appologies. But, since you asked, it's out of context because you cut my sentence in half. You would be correct in asserting that my brain does not know that God exists.

yer an idiot



Ragtime
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02 Jun 2007, 3:53 pm

Mitch8817 wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
I do not know this god exists. Therefore I doubt it very much.


The second sentence is not a "therefore" to the first. The first posits a 50/50 probability. The second posits that one of the two possibilities is far more unlikely than the other. You've added a variable somewhere, Sopho. Your "then" does not logically proceed from your "if".


Or it could mean that she is skeptical of what she does not know to be true.


True, and those reasons would extend beyond purely-logical likelihood.



Mitch8817
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02 Jun 2007, 3:53 pm

But that is not the case for me and so many others. We are aware of the Bible, the teaching and all of that. Yet the way we have been raised, the way we have come to understand the world and our life experiences have led us down a different, non-Christian path. Why are we to be blamed here? I would certainly believe in God if I thought him to be real - what idiot wouldn't? Nobody wants to burn for eternity and east of all me. This should show you how strong I am in my non-God beliefs.

As a side question, why even go through this formality of judgement? God knows all doesn't he? Then he knows all I have done, thought and could possibly say to him. It's all preordained.


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Ragtime
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02 Jun 2007, 4:00 pm

Mitch8817 wrote:
But that is not the case for me and so many others. We are aware of the Bible, the teaching and all of that. Yet the way we have been raised, the way we have come to understand the world and our life experiences have led us down a different, non-Christian path. Why are we to be blamed here? I would certainly believe in God if I thought him to be real - what idiot wouldn't? Nobody wants to burn for eternity and east of all me. This should show you how strong I am in my non-God beliefs.

As a side question, why even go through this formality of judgement? God knows all doesn't he? Then he knows all I have done, thought and could possibly say to him. It's all preordained.


If you honestly want to know truth, and want to serve God if He's worthy of serving, you will go to Heaven, period.



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02 Jun 2007, 4:02 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
I do not know this god exists. Therefore I doubt it very much.


The second sentence is not a "therefore" to the first. The first posits a 50/50 probability. The second posits that one of the two possibilities is far more unlikely than the other. You've added a variable somewhere, Sopho. Your "then" does not logically proceed from your "if".

It works in the same way that it can be applied to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I have no way of proving it does not exist. That does not mean that I should then give it any credibility if it seems unlikely to me. And the prospect of a Christian god exisiting, although not provable or disprovable, appeats ridiculously unlikely to me. Therefore, while I cannot say I KNOW it does not exist, I doubt that it does.



Mitch8817
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02 Jun 2007, 4:04 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Mitch8817 wrote:
But that is not the case for me and so many others. We are aware of the Bible, the teaching and all of that. Yet the way we have been raised, the way we have come to understand the world and our life experiences have led us down a different, non-Christian path. Why are we to be blamed here? I would certainly believe in God if I thought him to be real - what idiot wouldn't? Nobody wants to burn for eternity and east of all me. This should show you how strong I am in my non-God beliefs.

As a side question, why even go through this formality of judgement? God knows all doesn't he? Then he knows all I have done, thought and could possibly say to him. It's all preordained.


If you honestly want to know truth, and want to serve God if He's worthy of serving, you will go to Heaven, period.


Can you tell me where you have gotten this idea from? I heard only believers could get into heaven.


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Ragtime
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02 Jun 2007, 4:04 pm

Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
I do not know this god exists. Therefore I doubt it very much.


The second sentence is not a "therefore" to the first. The first posits a 50/50 probability. The second posits that one of the two possibilities is far more unlikely than the other. You've added a variable somewhere, Sopho. Your "then" does not logically proceed from your "if".

It works in the same way that it can be applied to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I have no way of proving it does not exist. That does not mean that I should then give it any credibility if it seems unlikely to me. And the prospect of a Christian god exisiting, although not provable or disprovable, appeats ridiculously unlikely to me. Therefore, while I cannot say I KNOW it does not exist, I doubt that it does.


It doesn't exist. If you believe in it, you're screwed.



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02 Jun 2007, 4:06 pm

Ragtime wrote:
It doesn't exist. If you believe in it, you're screwed.

What doesn't exist? The Flying Spaghetti Monster? I never said it did. I don't believe in any god. I am just pointing out that, while I can't disprove either, both are so unlikely I might as well say they don't exist.



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02 Jun 2007, 4:09 pm

Ragtime wrote:
It doesn't exist. If you believe in it, you're screwed.



prove it.



Mitch8817
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02 Jun 2007, 4:10 pm

Ragtime wrote:
It doesn't exist. If you believe in it, you're screwed.


hahaha so blunt!


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02 Jun 2007, 4:13 pm

Ragtime wrote:
It's actually not that black-and-white. God is a God of mercy, as He sees fit, so there is the throwing yourself on the mercy of the court thing that anyone can do. If you're willing to risk it, you can make you case to God on judgment day, that no one told you about Him, you didn't have access to a Bible, etc. He is merciful beyond His law, as He sees fit, but never harsher than His law.


A person lives a life of sin and debauchery. He lies, steals, and generally makes things miserable for those around him. He may even have killed some people. On his deathbed, he repents and converts to Christianity.

A second person lives a virtuous life, helping others and generally trying to make the world a better place. But this second person was born and raised as a Buddhist. He's heard about Christianity, but he has categorically rejected it.

Which one goes to heaven and which one goes to hell? According to what the Christians tell me, the first person would go heaven, and the second one would go to hell.

That is enough for me to not even consider Christianity as an option. And if somehow someone was able to prove without any doubt that everything about Christianity is absolutely true, I'd immediately join up with the other side.


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Ragtime
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02 Jun 2007, 4:17 pm

Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
It doesn't exist. If you believe in it, you're screwed.

What doesn't exist? The Flying Spaghetti Monster? I never said it did. I don't believe in any god. I am just pointing out that, while I can't disprove either, both are so unlikely I might as well say they don't exist.


No, sorry, I mean if you put your faith an in "it" -- an impersonal god -- might as well not bother.

But, regarding the truth, the will is all it takes to be Saved. Evidence, intellect, even good works are all "extras" you can add on if you want, but none of them by themselves or together get you to Heaven. Only the will puts you there. In the spirit, it's a simple yes/no decision. And we've all made it already. Though, we've got time left to change it.



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02 Jun 2007, 4:19 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
It doesn't exist. If you believe in it, you're screwed.

What doesn't exist? The Flying Spaghetti Monster? I never said it did. I don't believe in any god. I am just pointing out that, while I can't disprove either, both are so unlikely I might as well say they don't exist.


No, sorry, I mean if you put your faith an in "it" -- an impersonal god -- might as well not bother.

What are you talking about? Are you referring to my use of the word 'it'?



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02 Jun 2007, 4:21 pm

skafather84 wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
It doesn't exist. If you believe in it, you're screwed.



prove it.


As I've said, I can't. But that doesn't make it less true, just less evidensible.



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02 Jun 2007, 4:23 pm

Ragtime wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
It doesn't exist. If you believe in it, you're screwed.



prove it.


As I've said, I can't. But that doesn't make it less true, just less evidensible.

If there is no evidence for something, then how can you possibly claim to know that it is true?