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Raptor
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05 Jun 2018, 4:48 am

Fnord wrote:
Access to health care is a right. Actually receiving health care is a privilege.

For a long time I've noticed that liberals honestly consider rights to be entitlements...


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05 Jun 2018, 7:03 am

Remember in countries with "free" healthcare it's not free, your taxes pay for that. It's kind of like instead of having to pay as and when you need it, you're paying for a lifetime subscription to healthcare.



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05 Jun 2018, 8:00 am

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
It should be. Unfortunately, it's treated as a privilege in the States.
In Europe (especially the Socialist countries) Health Care is a right. In the United States of America (a Plutocratic Oligarchy), Health Care is a privilege. This proves two things:

1) It all depends on who's in charge.

2) The distinction between "Rights" and "Privileges" is an arbitrary one.



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05 Jun 2018, 8:10 am

Drake wrote:
Remember in countries with "free" healthcare it's not free, your taxes pay for that. It's kind of like instead of having to pay as and when you need it, you're paying for a lifetime subscription to healthcare.

Sounds a lot like insurance.


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Dylanperr
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05 Jun 2018, 8:22 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Dylanperr wrote:
It believe it shall be a right. I think it is nonsense when ANcaps say its slavery to demand that healthcare is a right. Especially us Autistics that need it.


That's because "an"-caps are a huge joke. According to "an"-caps, a man who lives in a mansion is a slave because he has to pay a little extra in taxes. Meanwhile, a poor man who barely makes enough money too feed his family isn't considered to be a slave.

Anarcho-crapitalism is what you get when you think about politics in your head for a long time without looking at the real world. An-crap theory has an almost mathematical simplicity to it, which is likely the reason why so many internet nerds find it attractive ... but real people are complex.

An-crap principles are about as simple as the math behind gravity ... but the real world is more complex than that. Thus, every an-crap argument resembles a surreal reductio ad absurdum sociopolitical acid trip.

In an an-crap society, landowners would effectively become the new government. Therefore, it's not anarchism at all.

Image

And who builds the battleships in an anarcho capitalist society anyway?



Dylanperr
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05 Jun 2018, 9:06 am



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05 Jun 2018, 12:30 pm

Dylanperr wrote:
Do you think it is?


Yes.


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VIDEODROME
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05 Jun 2018, 1:10 pm

I don't think access to Health Care is an innate Human Right. Maybe the same could be said though for many things that involve government. Is it a Right for me to be able to call the Fire Department to save my residence or stop a fire from spreading while not being presented a bill for thousands of dollars? Is it a Right to be able to call the Police? If I was charged with a crime, does it make sense that I have a Right to legal counsel in a government court system?

I think we have Human Rights like Free Speech, Assembly, or Privacy, but can also create Special Rights that come with being a citizen of whatever country you happen to live in.

Health Care should be one of these kinds of Rights.



cubedemon6073
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05 Jun 2018, 6:20 pm

Fnord wrote:
A right is an inalienable entitlement -- You have the right to pursue happiness, for example.

A privilege is a revocable entitlement -- Your driver's license can be revoked, denying you the privilege of driving a car, for example.

In the case of medical care, while you do have the inalienable right to life, the privilege of obtaining medical care can be revoked due to religion, lack of money, death sentence, or your mother's reproductive 'choice'. In other words, someone else's determination can prevent you from receiving the treatment you need to stay alive.


And, if inalienable is conditional then how is it truthfully inalienable? It's like saying war is peace and telling me one has the right to leave the USA yet one doesn't have the right to reside somewhere else. Da f*k!



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05 Jun 2018, 6:51 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
A right is an inalienable entitlement -- You have the right to pursue happiness, for example.

A privilege is a revocable entitlement -- Your driver's license can be revoked, denying you the privilege of driving a car, for example.

In the case of medical care, while you do have the inalienable right to life, the privilege of obtaining medical care can be revoked due to religion, lack of money, death sentence, or your mother's reproductive 'choice'. In other words, someone else's determination can prevent you from receiving the treatment you need to stay alive.


And, if inalienable is conditional then how is it truthfully inalienable? It's like saying war is peace and telling me one has the right to leave the USA yet one doesn't have the right to reside somewhere else. Da f*k!
Exactly. The difference between 'rights' and 'privileges' is essentially an arbitrary one -- humans invented these concepts, humans bestowed them, and humans can take them away.

There are no 'rights', there are no 'privileges'; there is only what other people let you do, have, think, speak, and write.

Only this, and nothing more.



Dylanperr
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05 Jun 2018, 8:04 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Dylanperr wrote:
It believe it shall be a right. I think it is nonsense when ANcaps say its slavery to demand that healthcare is a right. Especially us Autistics that need it.


That's because "an"-caps are a huge joke. According to "an"-caps, a man who lives in a mansion is a slave because he has to pay a little extra in taxes. Meanwhile, a poor man who barely makes enough money too feed his family isn't considered to be a slave.

Anarcho-crapitalism is what you get when you think about politics in your head for a long time without looking at the real world. An-crap theory has an almost mathematical simplicity to it, which is likely the reason why so many internet nerds find it attractive ... but real people are complex.

An-crap principles are about as simple as the math behind gravity ... but the real world is more complex than that. Thus, every an-crap argument resembles a surreal reductio ad absurdum sociopolitical acid trip.

In an an-crap society, landowners would effectively become the new government. Therefore, it's not anarchism at all.

Image

Do you like normal Capitalism with government?



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05 Jun 2018, 8:15 pm

Dylanperr wrote:
Do you like normal Capitalism with government?


It can work as long as there is a social safety net, and laws restricting campaign finance.


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cubedemon6073
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05 Jun 2018, 8:28 pm

Fnord wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
A right is an inalienable entitlement -- You have the right to pursue happiness, for example.

A privilege is a revocable entitlement -- Your driver's license can be revoked, denying you the privilege of driving a car, for example.

In the case of medical care, while you do have the inalienable right to life, the privilege of obtaining medical care can be revoked due to religion, lack of money, death sentence, or your mother's reproductive 'choice'. In other words, someone else's determination can prevent you from receiving the treatment you need to stay alive.


And, if inalienable is conditional then how is it truthfully inalienable? It's like saying war is peace and telling me one has the right to leave the USA yet one doesn't have the right to reside somewhere else. Da f*k!
Exactly. The difference between 'rights' and 'privileges' is essentially an arbitrary one -- humans invented these concepts, humans bestowed them, and humans can take them away.

There are no 'rights', there are no 'privileges'; there is only what other people let you do, have, think, speak, and write.

Only this, and nothing more.


Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You!

You are the first person I've met who acknowledges this. You are 100000% correct on this. I :heart: your message here.



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06 Jun 2018, 2:03 am

It definitely should be.
What is the justification for opposing universal healthcare, save for hatred of the needy for allegedly being a drag on the affluent, and just out-and-out stinginess regarding having to pay more taxes.


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Drake
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06 Jun 2018, 7:09 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Drake wrote:
Remember in countries with "free" healthcare it's not free, your taxes pay for that. It's kind of like instead of having to pay as and when you need it, you're paying for a lifetime subscription to healthcare.

Sounds a lot like insurance.

But the difference is in America you've got insurance companies looking to make as much money as they can and big pharma looking to make as much money as they can. You can easily find the stats on how it costs waaay more in the US to get the same treatment than in other countries. With non-profit government run healthcare you cut out the slimy insurance middlemen entirely along with all their jockeying over whether they have to pay you or not for healthcare and I'm not sure how it works for curbing the costs of drugs but it definitely happens, other countries don't have to pay what the US pays for the same drugs.



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06 Jun 2018, 10:58 am

I agree I should have a "right" to bypass doctors.

I can find my condition online, see appropriate treatments, so I should be able to go to a local pharmacy and order the drugs/medical care I need, and not be blocked by medical laws.


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