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Deinonychus
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20 Jul 2018, 7:57 am

If your interested OP, Bill Browder's story and the most recent attack on him and the Magnitzky act sheds some light on Putin's Russia. If you're at all interested


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thinkinginpictures
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20 Jul 2018, 3:00 pm

Putin wants the baltic countries, like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Denmark, Sweden and Norway under Russian sphere of influence and wants to annex them. In other words, Russia is posing a direct threat to NATO and its neighbors.

If the democratic governments oppose Russian sphere of influence, Russia will cancel the elections/make them invalid and if the people go to the streets to protest, Russia will send snipers to kill innocent civilians.

We know that, because this is exactly what they did in Ukraine!

Russia will also send tanks and massive weapons against soverign nations, to annex them. They are currently doing so in Ukraine, currently Russia has annexed part of Ukraine - Crimea!

Russia did so by elections where opponents of russian annexation would face imprisonment. The ballots were transparent so everyone could see who voted for for/against becoming part of Russia.

Let me remind you that if Russia gets direct access to the Atlantic, Russia will pose a direct threat to UK and U.S. as well.

Russia/Putin is also directly involved in the Novichok poisonings in the UK of british citizens.



kraftiekortie
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20 Jul 2018, 4:20 pm

Yep.....Russia is an expansionist state. Absolutely.

But NATO wouldn't allow all this to happen. NATO is not just Trump.....



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20 Jul 2018, 4:49 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Yep.....Russia is an expansionist state. Absolutely.

But NATO wouldn't allow all this to happen. NATO is not just Trump.....


Of course, though, Putin is supporting those fringe, anti-NATO, Anti-European Union political movements in Europe, hoping to destroy the grand alliance from within.


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20 Jul 2018, 6:54 pm

I totally understand why Putin wants to expand Russia. Russia has a long and very ugly history of expansion that goes right back to Ivan the Terrible. The Russians even enslaved the native people of Alaska back when it was under Russian control.

Russian history is one of the most horrifying things that I have ever read about … and history may repeat itself.


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22 Jul 2018, 7:34 pm

Putin is trying to be a new Tsar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IWWAIS-tE4


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22 Jul 2018, 7:40 pm

MSBKyle wrote:
The media portrays Putin as an evil dictator who colluded in the 2016 election. Trump is being criticized for siding with Putin that he did not collude in our elections. I'm not saying that Putin is an angel, but I don't understand what he has done that has been so evil. Even if Russia did collude in our elections, I don't believe it affected the outcome. People voted the way they voted because of who they felt would be better for the United States, not because another country told them how to vote.


I am glad you brought that up. He is certainly evil from the point of view of The Clinton Dynasty. Please read my thread "The Clinton Family Scares me". That would probably explain much.



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29 Jul 2018, 1:00 am

MSBKyle wrote:
The media portrays Putin as an evil dictator who colluded in the 2016 election. Trump is being criticized for siding with Putin that he did not collude in our elections. I'm not saying that Putin is an angel, but I don't understand what he has done that has been so evil. Even if Russia did collude in our elections, I don't believe it affected the outcome. People voted the way they voted because of who they felt would be better for the United States, not because another country told them how to vote.


Well he has more wealth than theoretically should but that is not the issue. The issue is the Russia that Putin grew up in saw the was locked in to a mind set where the United States was an adversary to dethrone. The goal of the USSR was to be better and more powerful than the U.S. and I believe Putin continues to possess that mind set. Thus, Putin's Russia cannot be a true ally to the U.S. like, for example, the U.K. is. Putin's Russia is still fighting the cold war.



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29 Jul 2018, 12:49 pm

MSBKyle wrote:
Even if Russia did collude in our elections, I don't believe it affected the outcome. People voted the way they voted because of who they felt would be better for the United States, not because another country told them how to vote.

These are not mutually-exclusive phenomena. Russia's meddling did not consist of saying "we prefer Donald Trump". I don't even have much issue with that sort of behaviour. Instead, Russia engaged in a prolonged propaganda campaign with the intent of changing people's opinions without making it apparent that was what they were doing.

Some of the things that Russia did to influence the American election:

- They created fake Facebook groups trying to further polarise wedge issues, and used those groups to spread provocative content.
- They created fake Twitter accounts and used them to try and, amongst other things, convince Bernie Bros to vote for Donald Trump.
- They made fake Tumblr posts trying to convince people that, amongst other things, Hillary was just as racist as Donald Trump and it would be better to vote third party or not vote at all.

This content reached millions of Americans. It often resonated deeply, as shown by the number of times it was liked and shared. It helped alter people's opinions, often falsely; there are people in this very thread repeating the falsehoods that the Russians tried to spread. It almost certainly changed the voting behaviour of a significant number of people. There's a good chance that it swung a couple of Great Lakes states. It's entirely plausible that it swung the election overall.

I suspect at some point in the future we will be better at quantifying these sorts of things and may be able to say with a greater degree of confidence whether the Russians swung PA, FL, or OH (fwiw my gut says that OH would still have gone for Trump but it's too hard to say for the others).

America seems particularly vulnerable to this sort of meddling because there's not much you can do to make your people less vulnerable, but information can make it easier for meddlers to meddle, and America has the single most studied political system in any democracy - the Russians had access to reams of information about demographics, issues, language, and geography, in addition to the ordinary stuff about psychology. America also uses winner-take-all voting systems, which are more vulnerable to catastrophic hijacking than proportional systems.

The UK's EU referendum would also have been an obvious target, but I don't think as much work has been done to investigate the extent of Russian meddling there. By all accounts, there was significant attempted meddling in the French Presidential election, but a) that was a losing cause from the start because Macron had the popularity that Hillary deserved and Le Pen had the unpopularity Trump deserved, b) the Russians didn't seem to be as good at speaking French as they were at speaking English and would frequently make implausible mistakes in their writing. I've heard that they tried to target Spanish-speaking communities in the US but I can't really recall how successful they were. Could be entertaining going forward.



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29 Jul 2018, 7:09 pm

Because the election came down to a relatively very small number of votes in a few swing states any number of what in a more normal election would have been minute factors could have swung it.

Whatever meddling occurred was a very small factor compared to the Democrats nominating Hillary. Trump is expediating America's deterioration he is not a root cause, things have been going downhill a number of fronts since the 1960s. The Russians were exploiting existing factors that were here. That is what intelligence agencies for most countries do to advance their nation's interests. The Russian campaign is very similar to what the UK did to re-elect Roosevelt to get America into WWII.


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29 Jul 2018, 7:16 pm

Among other things, he is extremely homophobic (despite what the Trump/Putin gay jokes would have you believe) and has killed and tortured gay men.


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31 Jul 2018, 11:54 am

"He's an ex-KGB guy-----enuf said!! ! ! !"

I thought all those guys were friendly , dont you remember Gogol in 007 :lol:

In a war Russia will win , they always do : Napoleon , Hitler etc



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01 Aug 2018, 6:44 am

It's quite simple really. Liberalism, which controls the bulk of media, doesn't want there to be any strongman leaders. It wants soft marshmallowy leaders who will bend over backwards to accommodate the liberal agenda.




The above comment may or may not be satirical.



kraftiekortie
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01 Aug 2018, 7:00 am

Why would any autistic person want a “strongman leader”?

(Not satirical)



EzraS
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01 Aug 2018, 7:54 am

Ask Darmok.



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01 Aug 2018, 10:50 am

EzraS wrote:
It's quite simple really. Liberalism, which controls the bulk of media, doesn't want there to be any strongman leaders. It wants soft marshmallowy leaders who will bend over backwards to accommodate the liberal agenda.




The above comment may or may not be satirical.


No, they want leaders who respect the rule of law and free government.


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