2nd Commandment - no graven images - really?

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Fnord
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18 Dec 2018, 10:51 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
But do they worship it like a god?
a. Worship is reserved solely for God.
b. People worship graven images.
: : People worship graven images as God.

QED



kraftiekortie
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18 Dec 2018, 11:01 am

One can "worship" something----like a girl a man is in love with. The man would be foolish to literally worship the girl like she's a god.

Semantics does, in the process of "evolution," do funny things.



hurtloam
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18 Dec 2018, 11:07 am

For Christians I'd ask, how did Jesus and his disciples pray? Did they use icons and statues?

If they didn't need them I don't see why I would need them. But then icons/statues have never been part of my culture so I feel nothing towards them. They are superfluous to my needs.

When did they start being used? And why?



kraftiekortie
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18 Dec 2018, 11:08 am

The images, it seems to me, were used as symbols of something which might seem too abstract for some people.

That's why we have stained glass works of arts which depicts, say, the Crucifixion of Jesus in visual form for populations which were mostly illiterate.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 18 Dec 2018, 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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18 Dec 2018, 11:10 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
The images, it seems to me, were used as symbols of something which might seem too abstract for some people.
Yeah ... just like the Golden Calf (see Exodus 32:4).



kraftiekortie
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18 Dec 2018, 11:15 am

Think about, in Moses' day, the Golden Calf's association with debauchery and immorality----versus the perceived moral uprightness of the new Mosaic/Ten Commandments religion.



hurtloam
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18 Dec 2018, 11:18 am

I think there's a difference between praying towards a painting and just having a painting as decoration.

I quite like Renoir, but hanging "A girl on a swing" in my house doesn't mean I'm worshipping her or Renoir and I'm not using it as a focus for prayer.

*edited to clarify I'm not actually hanging some poor girl with a swing.



Last edited by hurtloam on 18 Dec 2018, 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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18 Dec 2018, 11:19 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Think about, in Moses' day, the Golden Calf's association with debauchery and immorality----versus the perceived moral uprightness of the new Mosaic/Ten Commandments religion.
So, just because it's a Christian practice, that makes idolatry alright?

:roll: No wonder people think we're all hypocrites...



Fnord
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18 Dec 2018, 11:23 am

hurtloam wrote:
I think there's a difference between praying towards a painting and just having a painting as decoration. I quite like Renoir, but hanging a girl on a swing in my house doesn't mean I'm worshipping her or Renoir and I'm not using it as a focus for prayer.
Obviously, there is a distinction between decorative art and religious idolatry.

This is art:
Image

This is idolatry:
Image



Piobaire
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18 Dec 2018, 11:29 am

Image



kraftiekortie
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18 Dec 2018, 11:30 am

No....it makes "idolatry" all right for Christians and those of other religions----as long as it doesn't promote debauchery and other such moral trespasses.

I am no Christian....so I wouldn't feel inspired to "defend" Christianity in that sense....



Fnord
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18 Dec 2018, 11:32 am

Idolatry is idolatry, no matter which religion practices it.



Piobaire
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18 Dec 2018, 11:38 am

The 'Golden Calf'; the graven image America really worships.

Image



kraftiekortie
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18 Dec 2018, 11:58 am

Merrill Lynch used to say that it was "Bullish on America."



Fnord
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18 Dec 2018, 1:51 pm

Piobaire wrote:
The 'Golden Calf'; the graven image America really worships.

Image
I think you're on to something!



hurtloam
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18 Dec 2018, 2:10 pm

Fnord wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
I think there's a difference between praying towards a painting and just having a painting as decoration. I quite like Renoir, but hanging a girl on a swing in my house doesn't mean I'm worshipping her or Renoir and I'm not using it as a focus for prayer.
Obviously, there is a distinction between decorative art and religious idolatry.

This is art:
Image

This is idolatry:
Image


That's what I was trying to say. A picture paints 1000 words. Nicely done.