Could be Feminism have been setup via undiagnosed aspies?

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SaveFerris
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01 Apr 2019, 5:46 pm

Anyway , everyone here knows I'm sexist , it's the way I was brought up , I open doors for woman , I refuse to split the bill , I'll offer my jacket to a female friend who is cold , and I make sacrifices for women, I'v even helped women in the workplace to the detriment of my health but because it's benevolent sexism, and its seemingly positive evaluations and implicit attributions, it is likely to hinder a woman's confidence and performance.


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Fnord
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01 Apr 2019, 6:29 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
... The militant misandry that Fnord points to, for example, to all intents and purposes doesn't exist.
Sorry, Wally, but it does.

No, not everywhere, and not all of the time -- I have personally only encountered it twice in the past calendar year.

But I remember them, and if they were the only encounters with a "feminist" that I remember, then I might tend to believe that all "feminists" were like that. But I live in Southern California, where the general attitude toward gender equality seems to be more normal than Southern Michigan (for example).

People do tend to remember instances with great emotional content more often than ordinary, boring events. Thus, one instance of someone screaming "Slimeball" at me for practicing what Ferris referred to as "Benevolent Sexism" is easier to remember than any one expression of gratitude for practicing the same behaviors in favor of a well-educated female professional.

For some men, that one "Slimeball" incident would, in their minds, become representative of all feminist expressions, while the benign gratitude would be forgotten. I think that this is an application of "Confirmation Bias" -- what you expect to happen, no matter how rare, serves to confirm those expectations. Some men expect feminists to be borderline psychopaths, and when they do meet that one out of a million or so who actually is a psychopath, that's all they need to confirm, in their minds, that she is representative of all the rest.



lostonearth35
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01 Apr 2019, 6:32 pm

WP is sounding more like a site for incel woman-haters every day.



Crimadella
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01 Apr 2019, 6:37 pm

lostonearth35 wrote:
WP is sounding more like a site for incel woman-haters every day.



Strange, I haven't run across a woman hater yet on WP.

The OP's conspiracy theory was a little, out there, I didn't take it as in they 'hate women'.



Fnord
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01 Apr 2019, 6:41 pm

Crimadella wrote:
lostonearth35 wrote:
WP is sounding more like a site for incel woman-haters every day.
Strange, I haven't run across a woman hater yet on WP.
There are a few, although you might easily mistake them for the "I can't get a girlfriend" type, even though they seem to blame women for their involuntarily celibate lives.



Crimadella
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01 Apr 2019, 7:00 pm

Fnord wrote:
Crimadella wrote:
lostonearth35 wrote:
WP is sounding more like a site for incel woman-haters every day.
Strange, I haven't run across a woman hater yet on WP.
There are a few, although you might easily mistake them for the "I can't get a girlfriend" type, even though they seem to blame women for their involuntarily celibate lives.


Hmmm. I stay out of the love section. I can't get a girl friend, I don't blame that on women though, it's pretty much just my fault. I'm too scared of the social interactions. Women seem to like me when I can overcome my fears, and I definitely like them back. I think lostonearth35's comment was a bit of an overstatement. There seems to be overwhelmingly pretty decent respect for women in all the conversations I have encountered, it's definitely not as if WP is a site for women haters. Wonder if they were basing that of of the OP's conspiracy theory or the comments within. Seemed like the consensus within the topic was pretty clear on squashing the conspiracy of autistic women being the drivers behind feminist groups.



Fnord
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01 Apr 2019, 7:09 pm

Crimadella wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Crimadella wrote:
lostonearth35 wrote:
WP is sounding more like a site for incel woman-haters every day.
Strange, I haven't run across a woman hater yet on WP.
There are a few, although you might easily mistake them for the "I can't get a girlfriend" type, even though they seem to blame women for their involuntarily celibate lives.
Hmmm. I stay out of the love section. I can't get a girl friend, I don't blame that on women though, it's pretty much just my fault. I'm too scared of the social interactions. Women seem to like me when I can overcome my fears, and I definitely like them back. I think lostonearth35's comment was a bit of an overstatement. There seems to be overwhelmingly pretty decent respect for women in all the conversations I have encountered, it's definitely not as if WP is a site for women haters. Wonder if they were basing that of of the OP's conspiracy theory or the comments within. Seemed like the consensus within the topic was pretty clear on squashing the conspiracy of autistic women being the drivers behind feminist groups.
Yes, the overt misogyny has definitely quieted down in the last few months, although some people seem to still not got the message that misogyny is not welcome here.



The_Walrus
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02 Apr 2019, 2:48 pm

Fnord wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
... The militant misandry that Fnord points to, for example, to all intents and purposes doesn't exist.
Sorry, Wally, but it does.

No, not everywhere, and not all of the time -- I have personally only encountered it twice in the past calendar year.

But I remember them, and if they were the only encounters with a "feminist" that I remember, then I might tend to believe that all "feminists" were like that. But I live in Southern California, where the general attitude toward gender equality seems to be more normal than Southern Michigan (for example).

People do tend to remember instances with great emotional content more often than ordinary, boring events. Thus, one instance of someone screaming "Slimeball" at me for practicing what Ferris referred to as "Benevolent Sexism" is easier to remember than any one expression of gratitude for practicing the same behaviors in favor of a well-educated female professional.

For some men, that one "Slimeball" incident would, in their minds, become representative of all feminist expressions, while the benign gratitude would be forgotten. I think that this is an application of "Confirmation Bias" -- what you expect to happen, no matter how rare, serves to confirm those expectations. Some men expect feminists to be borderline psychopaths, and when they do meet that one out of a million or so who actually is a psychopath, that's all they need to confirm, in their minds, that she is representative of all the rest.

So... what exactly happened?

Most people hold doors for each other wherever they go. I have never once seen anyone else shout at someone for holding a door for them. The idea that it happens to you a couple of times a year is quite difficult to believe.



hurtloam
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02 Apr 2019, 3:57 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
I don't think the fringe element are either the loudest or particularly prominent. Yes there are still some nasty second wavers with national newspaper columns (Bindel and Greer for example), but most prominent feminists are friendly and reasonable people, and that doesn't explain the particular hate for the third wave.

The militant misandry that Fnord points to, for example, to all intents and purposes doesn't exist.


Jessica Valenti.

I used to read her Guardian column. She's an absolute fruit loop... in my opinion. I don't know where her writing is being published these days, but I was never sure how sincere she was or whether she was deliberately stirring things. I wish I could think of some examples.

Anyway, she herself has blocked me on Twitter for some reason, but I just read this reply to something she wrote: "I don’t like shaking hands with a man, because I figure they just went to the bathroom, adjusted themselves, scratched their asses, or jerked off. I’d rather shake hands with a sword wielding woman." 8O

I still can't believed she's blocked me lol. Me, the liberal easy-goer. I cant remember what i could have said to her. :lol:



naturalplastic
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02 Apr 2019, 4:17 pm

Lets all get back to the original post.

According to original poster:

Feminism apparently is bad.

And it's all the fault of undiagnosed female aspies.

So you female aspies get the credit, or the blame, for the whole thing!

So there!

You female aspies are a worse threat to family values than Gays!



The_Walrus
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02 Apr 2019, 4:59 pm

hurtloam wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
I don't think the fringe element are either the loudest or particularly prominent. Yes there are still some nasty second wavers with national newspaper columns (Bindel and Greer for example), but most prominent feminists are friendly and reasonable people, and that doesn't explain the particular hate for the third wave.

The militant misandry that Fnord points to, for example, to all intents and purposes doesn't exist.


Jessica Valenti.

I used to read her Guardian column. She's an absolute fruit loop... in my opinion. I don't know where her writing is being published these days, but I was never sure how sincere she was or whether she was deliberately stirring things. I wish I could think of some examples.

Anyway, she herself has blocked me on Twitter for some reason, but I just read this reply to something she wrote: "I don’t like shaking hands with a man, because I figure they just went to the bathroom, adjusted themselves, scratched their asses, or jerked off. I’d rather shake hands with a sword wielding woman." 8O

I still can't believed she's blocked me lol. Me, the liberal easy-goer. I cant remember what i could have said to her. :lol:

That isn't a reply to something she wrote, it's a reply to another Tweet that she quoted.

She posted a picture of a Tweet someone had sent her. In the picture, a Twitter user with a verified tick and a man in their profile picture says:
"Shaking hands with a woman is like shaking hands with a child. It seems artificial and vaguely patronising. The handshake was designated as a greeting between men to show that your sword hand was empty."

That Tweet is ripe for ridicule.



hurtloam
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02 Apr 2019, 10:18 pm

Yes, I've put 2 and 2 together after seeing other people I follow responding to Mr non-sword bearer.

I still think she took it too far. Imagine the backlash if someone made a similar joke about a woman. "I won't shake her hand because she's probably been using it to push a tampon in..." I'll not go too crass, but you get the picture.

I'm careful not to put men or women down as a whole down in my jokes or rants.



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03 Apr 2019, 2:47 am

Crimadella wrote:
lostonearth35 wrote:
WP is sounding more like a site for incel woman-haters every day.



Strange, I haven't run across a woman hater yet on WP.

The OP's conspiracy theory was a little, out there, I didn't take it as in they 'hate women'.


Years ago, we had a population of women-haters. They either left, or they got banned when I got my mod hat. :D


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SaveFerris
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03 Apr 2019, 4:42 am

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magz
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03 Apr 2019, 4:54 am

I suspect a totally different origin of feminism: it's part of broader social reaction to industrialization and technological progress. As physical labor becomes rarely necessary, there is no more excessive need for the quality men are statistically much better at - so the traditional male/female relationship became obsolette and new one needs to be defined.
Very high chances of children surviving to adulthood contribute to it, too - we don't need all women giving birth to 10 children each in hope 2 or 3 would make it.
In other activities, men and women are usually close to each other in abilities so there is no reason to make decisions based on one's gender.

Aspies are often quick to spot shortcomings of social standards, so there may have been many of them among early feminists.


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03 Apr 2019, 1:42 pm

Feminism started during the 1800s because of dissatisfaction with being second class citizens. The original goals were gaining equal rights in things like contracts, parenting, property, etc.


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