03 May 2019, 12:01 pm
ollychan wrote:
ollychan wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
ollychan wrote:
america has no art. lets make it happen.
Boris Groys, russian-german art theorist, put it in a way I think is correct: an artist is someone who devotes his life to cultivating his image.
Art has ceased to be about the production of art objects and has become about the production of art personalities.
He thinks Joseph Beyus was particularly good at this, but I think Andy Warhol and his it-girls are also to be credited.
If Groys is correct, then America has its art-form: being famous.
Robert Pirsig thought so, too, in Laila, the follow-up to Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance.
To be honest: no place but the US has people like the Kardashians.
We can argue about what the Kardashians produce, nay, are, is an indicator for the aesthetic sensibilities of our time...
There is hiwever another art form the US has invented and perfected: advertising.
If art of the 19th and early 20th century was about ideas and truths beyond one's own existence, about values to shape identities around, then advertising has taken this place.
What are orthodox icons but jesus fanart?
So, in my opinion, there's American art, and it's propagating the values of American civilization - mainly, individualism and the freedom to make one's image into and artwotk, and consumerism - the freedom to pick one's identity through consumption choices.
no i mean they are a) not as good b) untrue (comparing to esp the spain, italy, frrench speaking ones, and dutch .. )
or u mean like ..
Yes, that's exactly what I mean.
No one does 'famous' like Americans.
04 May 2019, 2:44 am
Well...
Why not?
Justin Bieber is the greatest thing ever!
The only reason anyone honors the likes of: Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Louis Armstrong, Ella, Aretha, Elvis, and the Beatles, is because...they were all just forerunners of...Justin Beiber! 
04 May 2019, 6:52 am
naturalplastic wrote:
Well...
Why not?
Justin Bieber is the greatest thing ever!
The only reason anyone honors the likes of: Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Louis Armstrong, Ella, Aretha, Elvis, and the Beatles, is because...they were all just forerunners of...Justin Beiber!
Why not?
Justin Bieber is the greatest thing ever!
The only reason anyone honors the likes of: Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Louis Armstrong, Ella, Aretha, Elvis, and the Beatles, is because...they were all just forerunners of...Justin Beiber!
hmm. yes, in a certain sense.
All the people you mention produced notable artworks, and they became famous for their work. But as you reach the 20th century, the image becomes more important, particularly with Elvis and the Beatles.
(Mozart is a bit of an exception, he had quite the reputation in his time. But no girls ever threw their panties at Bach. And if they had, he wouldn't have appreciated it much, I'm guessing)
But with Bieber, or Gaga, or the Kardashians, their music or whatever the Kardashians do (music? I honestly have no idea. I'm happy to live outside the US and am free to choose my media) is actually neglectable. Their image is the actual artwork.
It's notewothy, though obviously subjective, that I don't know a single song of Justin Bieber, either. Yet, I recognize his face.
With the Beatles, or Elvis, songs come to my mind, even though those aren't exactly my generation.
With Mozart and Bach, I can vaguely remember the paintings I have seen of them, but I can remember some of Bach's music (though I couldn't tell you what piece it is), and I can recall Mozart's music and point to the piece it's from.
However, Mozart has definitely become an image. Whoever wants to claim his image can do so, and sell chocolate with his face on it.
Hell, I live in a city that calls itself mozart-city, because his cousin who he had a crush on lived about ten minutes walk from my house. I don't live in Salzburg, which basically runs on Mozart-merchandise.
So, I guess even if a person wasn't an artist who spent his live grooming his own image, in the 20th century, he or she turned into images nonetheless.
04 May 2019, 7:12 am
About the Kardashians. They are truly only "famous for being famous". The mom is the widowed wife of a Hollywood lawyer who helped defend OJ, and she got remarried to Bruce Jenner (who was famous for actually doing something in sports decades ago). So they are Hollywood "royalty" ( who have connections to stars), and have good looks. But if you're wondering "what they actually do" to earn fame, its really nothing AFAIK. At least Bieber and Gaga have at least a mole hill of talent underneath the mountain of hype. But the Kardashian klan doesn't even have that molehill. Just the mountain of hype 
04 May 2019, 8:16 am
04 May 2019, 10:02 am
Trueno wrote:
I never liked the Kardashians in Deep Space Nine... I thought they were a bit dodgy and nasty towards the Bajorans. Everyone prefers The Klingons anyway... but I don't think they have a reality TV show.
But the Cardassians DO have nice ummm...nice....nice posteriors! Even if they have those nasty ridge things on their faces.
Funny how we are running out of names for sci fi and fantasy places and races.
One of the Harry Potter novels is entitle "Prisoner of Azkaban". Wasn't "Azkaban" a real region fought over in a recent war between the two former Soviet Republics of Armenia and Azerbiejan?
Some name like that.
04 May 2019, 11:38 am
