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Trump's Miracle Economy

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funeralxempire
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05 Oct 2019, 4:40 pm

Antrax wrote:
1) As a libertarian I find certain schools of economic thought more dangerous than others. Simply put attributing the recovery to Obama's stimulus policies is more dangerous than attributing the current state of the economy to Trump's tax cuts. I will heavily criticize Trump's tariff policies, when they come up, but it seems even his defenders don't attribute the economy to those.


Sounds like basically what you're saying is 'I won't fairly criticize the failures of policies I support, because that will undermine my ideological positions. I will criticize the failures of policies I oppose though, since that supports my positions - even when the reality is the topic is more complicated than my ideology is willing to admit.'.

:|


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EzraS
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05 Oct 2019, 6:23 pm

beneficii wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Any negative gains during the Obama administration were Bush's fault. Any positive gains during the Trump administration were accomplished by Obama.


So I guess that Trump deserves credit for everything, then? Is that what you're saying? If that is not what you're saying, then why don't you ever criticize the Trump supporters for inflating his accomplishments?

The purpose of cyberdad and wowiexist's posts in this thread is to provide balance to the imbalance created by Darmok.


What I am saying is what I said. It is a trend that I have noticed for quite some time.



funeralxempire
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05 Oct 2019, 6:26 pm

cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
It isn't about negative vs positive, it's about how the president's policies aren't in place within minutes of being sworn in and the consequences of those policies take time to play out.


Obama planted the apple tree, watered it and it began to bear fruit. Trump is taking the credit when handing out the ripe apples from aforementioned tree...


I think we're on the same page with this, even if we're not on the same paragraph. :nerdy:


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


EzraS
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05 Oct 2019, 6:27 pm

beneficii wrote:
Interesting how you focused on criticizing cyberdad's post, with Darmok's post being an afterthought, despite the fact that Darmok's is the OP.


Funny how you are focused on admonishing others, with Darmok's post being an afterthought, despite the fact that Darmok's is the OP.



beneficii
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05 Oct 2019, 6:36 pm

EzraS wrote:
beneficii wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Any negative gains during the Obama administration were Bush's fault. Any positive gains during the Trump administration were accomplished by Obama.


So I guess that Trump deserves credit for everything, then? Is that what you're saying? If that is not what you're saying, then why don't you ever criticize the Trump supporters for inflating his accomplishments?

The purpose of cyberdad and wowiexist's posts in this thread is to provide balance to the imbalance created by Darmok.


What I am saying is what I said. It is a trend that I have noticed for quite some time.


Trump taking full credit for the economic expansion and his supporters lapping it up is a trend I've noticed for quite a long time since even before his inauguration. And I think it's something other liberals have noticed too, as Trump supporters conveniently forget the economy expanded quite a bit under Obama.

It is stupid as hell that Trump supporters keep us locked in this "Did Trump really start the economic expansion or not?" debate, as it is just a big waste of everyone's time, which is probably why they do.

MOD EDIT: Edited out the personal attack.


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Antrax
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05 Oct 2019, 6:38 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Antrax wrote:
1) As a libertarian I find certain schools of economic thought more dangerous than others. Simply put attributing the recovery to Obama's stimulus policies is more dangerous than attributing the current state of the economy to Trump's tax cuts. I will heavily criticize Trump's tariff policies, when they come up, but it seems even his defenders don't attribute the economy to those.


Sounds like basically what you're saying is 'I won't fairly criticize the failures of policies I support, because that will undermine my ideological positions. I will criticize the failures of policies I oppose though, since that supports my positions - even when the reality is the topic is more complicated than my ideology is willing to admit.'.

:|


You may want to read what I wrote again, if that was your takeaway.


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LoveNotHate
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05 Oct 2019, 6:40 pm

Bush-Obama-Trump have the same economics of encouraging debt and claiming expanding debt is "growth".


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beneficii
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05 Oct 2019, 6:40 pm

EzraS wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Interesting how you focused on criticizing cyberdad's post, with Darmok's post being an afterthought, despite the fact that Darmok's is the OP.


Funny how you are focused on admonishing others, with Darmok's post being an afterthought, despite the fact that Darmok's is the OP.


I'm just backing up my allies, the same as you and Antrax.


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EzraS
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05 Oct 2019, 6:42 pm

beneficii wrote:
EzraS wrote:
beneficii wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Any negative gains during the Obama administration were Bush's fault. Any positive gains during the Trump administration were accomplished by Obama.


So I guess that Trump deserves credit for everything, then? Is that what you're saying? If that is not what you're saying, then why don't you ever criticize the Trump supporters for inflating his accomplishments?

The purpose of cyberdad and wowiexist's posts in this thread is to provide balance to the imbalance created by Darmok.


What I am saying is what I said. It is a trend that I have noticed for quite some time.


Trump taking full credit for the economic expansion and his supporters lapping it up is a trend I've noticed for quite a long time since even before his inauguration. And I think it's something other liberals have noticed too, as Trump supporters conveniently forget the economy expanded quite a bit under Obama.

It is stupid as hell that Trump supporters keep us locked in this "Did Trump really start the economic expansion or not?" debate, as it is just a big waste of everyone's time, which is probably why they do.



Maybe you should find a liberals only forum instead of derailing threads this way.



beneficii
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05 Oct 2019, 7:02 pm

EzraS wrote:
beneficii wrote:
EzraS wrote:
beneficii wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Any negative gains during the Obama administration were Bush's fault. Any positive gains during the Trump administration were accomplished by Obama.


So I guess that Trump deserves credit for everything, then? Is that what you're saying? If that is not what you're saying, then why don't you ever criticize the Trump supporters for inflating his accomplishments?

The purpose of cyberdad and wowiexist's posts in this thread is to provide balance to the imbalance created by Darmok.


What I am saying is what I said. It is a trend that I have noticed for quite some time.


Trump taking full credit for the economic expansion and his supporters lapping it up is a trend I've noticed for quite a long time since even before his inauguration. And I think it's something other liberals have noticed too, as Trump supporters conveniently forget the economy expanded quite a bit under Obama.

It is stupid as hell that Trump supporters keep us locked in this "Did Trump really start the economic expansion or not?" debate, as it is just a big waste of everyone's time, which is probably why they do.



Maybe you should find a liberals only forum instead of derailing threads this way.


No, I'm quite willing to remain here, thanks. I don't think conservatives never have a valid point, so I don't want to miss when they do make valid points.

Just do me a favor, OK? Quit saying that Trump is responsible for the economic expansion when it's more complex than that, when you know it isn't true. If you do that, then we'll stop saying it was all Obama for the economic expansion previously--as of course it was more complex than that. (And this goes for Darmok and Antrax, too.) I want us to move to a higher level of discussion, instead of this usual venomous muckrake stuff, but we can't do it if the conservatives continue to knowingly propagate mythology. Both sides have to be willing to move up before we can do this.


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EzraS
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05 Oct 2019, 7:16 pm

beneficii wrote:
EzraS wrote:
beneficii wrote:
EzraS wrote:
beneficii wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Any negative gains during the Obama administration were Bush's fault. Any positive gains during the Trump administration were accomplished by Obama.


So I guess that Trump deserves credit for everything, then? Is that what you're saying? If that is not what you're saying, then why don't you ever criticize the Trump supporters for inflating his accomplishments?

The purpose of cyberdad and wowiexist's posts in this thread is to provide balance to the imbalance created by Darmok.


What I am saying is what I said. It is a trend that I have noticed for quite some time.


Trump taking full credit for the economic expansion and his supporters lapping it up is a trend I've noticed for quite a long time since even before his inauguration. And I think it's something other liberals have noticed too, as Trump supporters conveniently forget the economy expanded quite a bit under Obama.

It is stupid as hell that Trump supporters keep us locked in this "Did Trump really start the economic expansion or not?" debate, as it is just a big waste of everyone's time, which is probably why they do.

And then of course we have concern trolls like Antrax, who pretend to be "concerned" about how effective impeachment can be against Trump; or at other times he's "concerned" about how effective universal health care can be and how it can be sold to the American public, when he admits here that he is libertarian making it to where he's probably ideologically opposed to universal health care anyway and is just trying to sow doubt in liberals' minds.


Maybe you should find a liberals only forum instead of derailing threads this way.


No, I'm quite willing to remain here, thanks. I don't think conservatives never have a valid point, so I don't want to miss when they do make valid points.

Just do me a favor, OK? Quit saying that Trump is responsible for the economic expansion when it's more complex than that, when you know it isn't true. If you do that, then we'll stop saying it was all Obama for the economic expansion previously--as of course it was more complex than that. (And this goes for Darmok and Antrax, too.) I want us to move to a higher level of discussion, instead of this usual venomous muckrake stuff, but we can't do it if the conservatives continue to knowingly propagate mythology. Both sides have to be willing to move up before we can do this.


What's with the "we" thing? Is there some sort of collective hive mind here? Can't people just post as individuals without you imposing an us against them routine to deflect from the topic and derail?



funeralxempire
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05 Oct 2019, 8:52 pm

Antrax wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Antrax wrote:
1) As a libertarian I find certain schools of economic thought more dangerous than others. Simply put attributing the recovery to Obama's stimulus policies is more dangerous than attributing the current state of the economy to Trump's tax cuts. I will heavily criticize Trump's tariff policies, when they come up, but it seems even his defenders don't attribute the economy to those.


Sounds like basically what you're saying is 'I won't fairly criticize the failures of policies I support, because that will undermine my ideological positions. I will criticize the failures of policies I oppose though, since that supports my positions - even when the reality is the topic is more complicated than my ideology is willing to admit.'.

:|


You may want to read what I wrote again, if that was your takeaway.


I can re-read it all I like, it won't change the appearance. :wink:


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


beneficii
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05 Oct 2019, 9:01 pm

EzraS wrote:
What's with the "we" thing? Is there some sort of collective hive mind here? Can't people just post as individuals without you imposing an us against them routine to deflect from the topic and derail?


If people are going to keep lying about how Trump is the one reason we have the current economic expansion, then that is going to have negative consequences for all of us.

If we can't even come to an understanding about that, then there isn't anything to discuss, really. Trumpsters are just going to continue to support and lie for their guy, because they think everybody lies as much as Trump, but Trump is their guy:



I regret now even trying to come to an understanding with you, especially with the way you try to project back onto me. Now I understand what Cenk says about how it's not about convincing you guys, it's about defeating you guys.


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Antrax
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05 Oct 2019, 9:20 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Antrax wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Antrax wrote:
1) As a libertarian I find certain schools of economic thought more dangerous than others. Simply put attributing the recovery to Obama's stimulus policies is more dangerous than attributing the current state of the economy to Trump's tax cuts. I will heavily criticize Trump's tariff policies, when they come up, but it seems even his defenders don't attribute the economy to those.


Sounds like basically what you're saying is 'I won't fairly criticize the failures of policies I support, because that will undermine my ideological positions. I will criticize the failures of policies I oppose though, since that supports my positions - even when the reality is the topic is more complicated than my ideology is willing to admit.'.

:|


You may want to read what I wrote again, if that was your takeaway.


I can re-read it all I like, it won't change the appearance. :wink:


Well given you have grossly misrepresented what I wrote, you are clearly projecting an argument I did not make into my post. Mainly in no point in my post did I advocate for any policy, only against certain policies (namely Obama stimulus policies and Trump's tariffs). Since I have not shown any support for any policies, saying I won't criticize their failures is greatly inaccurate.


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05 Oct 2019, 9:29 pm

beneficii wrote:
EzraS wrote:
What's with the "we" thing? Is there some sort of collective hive mind here? Can't people just post as individuals without you imposing an us against them routine to deflect from the topic and derail?


If people are going to keep lying about how Trump is the one reason we have the current economic expansion, then that is going to have negative consequences for all of us.

If we can't even come to an understanding about that, then there isn't anything to discuss, really. Trumpsters are just going to continue to support and lie for their guy, because they think everybody lies as much as Trump, but Trump is their guy:



I regret now even trying to come to an understanding with you, especially with the way you try to project back onto me. Now I understand what Cenk says about how it's not about convincing you guys, it's about defeating you guys.


A certain Minnesotan representative was asked whether she would denounce a certain horrific practice. She replied that "She had denounced it repeatedly and was tired of being asked to denounce it when she had done so many times!" She continued with "How many times per week should I denounce it." (I'm paraphrasing these aren't exact quotes). I think she was 100% right in her response.

I have voiced my dislike for Trump and wish to see him out of office many times. I have expressed my concern over his norm-breaking and heavy criticism of his trade policy many times. How many times do I have to say I don't support Trump and want him out of the White House? Do I need to put it in every post?


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EzraS
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05 Oct 2019, 9:38 pm

beneficii wrote:
EzraS wrote:
What's with the "we" thing? Is there some sort of collective hive mind here? Can't people just post as individuals without you imposing an us against them routine to deflect from the topic and derail?


If people are going to keep lying about how Trump is the one reason we have the current economic expansion, then that is going to have negative consequences for all of us.

If we can't even come to an understanding about that, then there isn't anything to discuss, really. Trumpsters are just going to continue to support and lie for their guy, because they think everybody lies as much as Trump, but Trump is their guy:



I regret now even trying to come to an understanding with you, especially with the way you try to project back onto me. Now I understand what Cenk says about how it's not about convincing you guys, it's about defeating you guys.


You are being ridiculous and disruptive. This isn't a battle ground. It's just a small sub-forum where a handful of individuals discuss news topics.



Last edited by EzraS on 05 Oct 2019, 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.