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Fnord
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26 Dec 2019, 9:39 am

More America-Bashing by Metal Rat:

Metal Rat wrote:
... Most Americans hate Germans.
Evidence, please?
Metal Rat wrote:
They certainly do not hate either the Koreans or the Vietnamese.
Evidence, please?
Metal Rat wrote:
After all, Americans are racked with guilt about the Korean and Vietnamese wars in a way they never are about US Military involvement in The Second World War.
Evidence, please?
Metal Rat wrote:
Americans, of course, see no reason to feel guilt about anything the US Military did, during The Second World War, including the atom bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki!
Evidence, please?


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Fnord
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26 Dec 2019, 9:46 am

Metal Rat wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Americans cant "hate Germans" because most White Americans ARE German.
I find that very, very hard to believe.
It's reality. Most white Americans have German ancestry, as well as Irish, English, Scottish, French, Italian, Spanish, Polish, and every other European nation -- it's what defines white Americans as "white".
Metal Rat wrote:
One would assume most White Americans would be of English ancestry, or some form of British ancestry.
Wrong again. YOU would assume such. Educated people know that white Americans ancestry is European.
Metal Rat wrote:
After all, why is New England termed New England?
Because the original 13 colonies were were a group of colonies of Great Britain that settled on the Atlantic coast of America in the 17th and 18th centuries by people from all over Europe.

:roll: Duh!


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Fnord
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26 Dec 2019, 9:49 am

Metal Rat wrote:
is not America run my the White Anglo Saxon Protestants ... ?
America is run by the wealthy, most of whom are considered "white", and most of whom claim Christianity as their religion (although you would not know it by their words and behavior). Some of those wealthy people have Asian, African, and/or Jewish ancestry, as well.


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TwilightPrincess
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26 Dec 2019, 9:52 am

Fnord wrote:
More America-Bashing by Metal Rat:
Metal Rat wrote:
... Most Americans hate Germans.
Evidence, please?
Metal Rat wrote:
They certainly do not hate either the Koreans or the Vietnamese.
Evidence, please?
Metal Rat wrote:
After all, Americans are racked with guilt about the Korean and Vietnamese wars in a way they never are about US Military involvement in The Second World War.
Evidence, please?
Metal Rat wrote:
Americans, of course, see no reason to feel guilt about anything the US Military did, during The Second World War, including the atom bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki!
Evidence, please?


“Intuition” has been mentioned in a different thread. We all know how reliable that can be.


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Fnord
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26 Dec 2019, 10:01 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
"Intuition" has been mentioned in a different thread. We all know how reliable that can be.
In this case, it is more likely some form of "Intermission"...


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funeralxempire
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26 Dec 2019, 7:10 pm

Metal Rat wrote:
None are against Hate Speech in principle. After all, what is the purpose of Holocaust Education, except to teach students to hate Germany, the Germans, and all things German?


Is that the effect learning about the Holocaust had one you? Personally, I like German and Germanic cultures.


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Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


Metal Rat
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27 Dec 2019, 2:47 am

Fnord wrote:
Metal Rat wrote:
... what is the purpose of Holocaust Education, except to teach students to hate Germany, the Germans, and all things German? ...
Reality: To teach students that (1) genocide happens, (2) genocide solves nothing, (3) war is hell, (4) dictators eventually lose, (5) the terrifying potential of dehumanization, (6) vigilance against the poison of anti-Semitism must remain, and finally, that (7) evil does not exist as anything other than a mere concept.

That last one is an odd, perhaps ludicrously offensive statement to some.  But to dismiss the atrocities of the Shoah as mere "evil" is to abdicate responsibility, to comfort ourselves by pretending somehow it was not human beings committing such sickening acts, but monsters who are nothing like us.  After a rational examination, three key points emerge:

(a) Germany was one of the most advanced countries on Earth at the time.

(b) Only about 1 per cent of humans are genuine psychopaths

(c) Millions of people -- not just Nazis and Germans -- helped the organised slaughter of Jews, Roma, disabled people, socialists, Slavs, et cetera.

Germany is not hated, neither are Germans.  Sure, people hate people, and some Germans may be on either side of that fact, but not everybody hates German or the German people as a whole, and certainly not in the same way that people hate Israel, Jews, and Jewish people.

Study history to learn, kid; not to reinforce your own prejudices.

That is really odd. I never thought of it like that. Always seemed to me that when they claimed The Holocaust was Uniquely Evil, that this was merely a veiled way of claiming that the German people, as a people, are! Still, it is an interesting fact, nonetheless, that the Russians and the Japanese carried out many, many of the very same types of military atrocities and crimes against Humanity that the Germans did.

This was especially so, during The Second World War. Besides, notice, in the movies about Vietnam, the US Military is vilified rather than the East Asian Communist enemy. This almost seems to suggest a Pro-Vietnamese bias, in such movies.



funeralxempire
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27 Dec 2019, 3:25 am

Metal Rat wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Metal Rat wrote:
... what is the purpose of Holocaust Education, except to teach students to hate Germany, the Germans, and all things German? ...
Reality: To teach students that (1) genocide happens, (2) genocide solves nothing, (3) war is hell, (4) dictators eventually lose, (5) the terrifying potential of dehumanization, (6) vigilance against the poison of anti-Semitism must remain, and finally, that (7) evil does not exist as anything other than a mere concept.

That last one is an odd, perhaps ludicrously offensive statement to some.  But to dismiss the atrocities of the Shoah as mere "evil" is to abdicate responsibility, to comfort ourselves by pretending somehow it was not human beings committing such sickening acts, but monsters who are nothing like us.  After a rational examination, three key points emerge:

(a) Germany was one of the most advanced countries on Earth at the time.

(b) Only about 1 per cent of humans are genuine psychopaths

(c) Millions of people -- not just Nazis and Germans -- helped the organised slaughter of Jews, Roma, disabled people, socialists, Slavs, et cetera.

Germany is not hated, neither are Germans.  Sure, people hate people, and some Germans may be on either side of that fact, but not everybody hates German or the German people as a whole, and certainly not in the same way that people hate Israel, Jews, and Jewish people.

Study history to learn, kid; not to reinforce your own prejudices.

That is really odd. I never thought of it like that. Always seemed to me that when they claimed The Holocaust was Uniquely Evil, that this was merely a veiled way of claiming that the German people, as a people, are! Still, it is an interesting fact, nonetheless, that the Russians and the Japanese carried out many, many of the very same types of military atrocities and crimes against Humanity that the Germans did.

This was especially so, during The Second World War. Besides, notice, in the movies about Vietnam, the US Military is vilified rather than the East Asian Communist enemy. This almost seems to suggest a Pro-Vietnamese bias, in such movies.


The act of the holocaust was uniquely evil in the sense that it represented the industrialization of genocide, although it's fair to say at this point parts of it's methods have been imitated, even if not all of them were combined by any imitator.

The German state and German people have been fairly open about wishing to and attempting to atone for their role. Sadly some of the other lesser actors only wish to view themselves as victims of the German violence.


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


Metal Rat
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27 Dec 2019, 3:40 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Metal Rat wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Metal Rat wrote:
... what is the purpose of Holocaust Education, except to teach students to hate Germany, the Germans, and all things German? ...
Reality: To teach students that (1) genocide happens, (2) genocide solves nothing, (3) war is hell, (4) dictators eventually lose, (5) the terrifying potential of dehumanization, (6) vigilance against the poison of anti-Semitism must remain, and finally, that (7) evil does not exist as anything other than a mere concept.

That last one is an odd, perhaps ludicrously offensive statement to some.  But to dismiss the atrocities of the Shoah as mere "evil" is to abdicate responsibility, to comfort ourselves by pretending somehow it was not human beings committing such sickening acts, but monsters who are nothing like us.  After a rational examination, three key points emerge:

(a) Germany was one of the most advanced countries on Earth at the time.

(b) Only about 1 per cent of humans are genuine psychopaths

(c) Millions of people -- not just Nazis and Germans -- helped the organised slaughter of Jews, Roma, disabled people, socialists, Slavs, et cetera.

Germany is not hated, neither are Germans.  Sure, people hate people, and some Germans may be on either side of that fact, but not everybody hates German or the German people as a whole, and certainly not in the same way that people hate Israel, Jews, and Jewish people.

Study history to learn, kid; not to reinforce your own prejudices.

That is really odd. I never thought of it like that. Always seemed to me that when they claimed The Holocaust was Uniquely Evil, that this was merely a veiled way of claiming that the German people, as a people, are! Still, it is an interesting fact, nonetheless, that the Russians and the Japanese carried out many, many of the very same types of military atrocities and crimes against Humanity that the Germans did.

This was especially so, during The Second World War. Besides, notice, in the movies about Vietnam, the US Military is vilified rather than the East Asian Communist enemy. This almost seems to suggest a Pro-Vietnamese bias, in such movies.


The act of the holocaust was uniquely evil in the sense that it represented the industrialization of genocide, although it's fair to say at this point parts of it's methods have been imitated, even if not all of them were combined by any imitator.

The German state and German people have been fairly open about wishing to and attempting to atone for their role. Sadly some of the other lesser actors only wish to view themselves as victims of the German violence.

The Holocaust could not have happened without the help of many Poles, and other Slavic peoples.



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27 Dec 2019, 3:47 am

Metal Rat wrote:
The Holocaust could not have happened without the help of many Poles, and other Slavic peoples.


I'm aware of this. In some countries even the anti-Nazi resistance was complicit in Nazi atrocities against the Jews, Poland is the best example of this that I can think of.


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


Bradleigh
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27 Dec 2019, 3:54 am

If Germany was hated, you would think that Oktoberfest would be less popular.

The real educated people look at the exact things that led to the horrible things that led to the holocaust and Nazism, and that USA is more of a problem now than Germany is.


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Metal Rat
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27 Dec 2019, 5:24 am

Bradleigh wrote:
If Germany was hated, you would think that Oktoberfest would be less popular.

The Oktoberfest is merely an accuse to get drunk, same as Saint Patrick's Day.



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27 Dec 2019, 5:29 am

I’ve always said that the Holocaust is one of many Genocides

All Genocides are “uniquely evil” in impact.



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27 Dec 2019, 6:11 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Trust me: WASPS don’t think of Scandinavians as being one of their own...

.

Trust me, you're wrong.

Our German American president certainly sees Norwejans as being one of his Nordic own (as did Hitler).



kraftiekortie
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27 Dec 2019, 6:32 am

They might feel kinship...but a snobby WASP only considers other WASPS to be on his/her level.

Trump is not a WASP. His ancestors came here before my mother’s side came here....but after my father’s side.



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27 Dec 2019, 7:22 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
They might feel kinship...but a snobby WASP only considers other WASPS to be on his/her level.

Trump is not a WASP. His ancestors came here before my mother’s side came here....but after my father’s side.

Well, he is soon going to be out of office, in any event!