Congratulations to the again-free people of Britain

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Can you give some examples of how in your opinion the EU is far from perfect?

Anyone thinking it is 'done' next week has really not understood it very well at all.

The starting pistol goes off next Friday at 11:00pm UK time. We then have 11 months of Brexit being worked on, during which time we must continue following all EU rules and regulations just like now, then on 1st January 2021 we effectively become a nation that is no longer in the EU.

January 31st will only mark the achievement of the goal, not the end (or beginning) of the effort.

It's like climbing a mountain; once you've survived the trip to the peak, you still must survive the trip back home.

It's part of the problem, unfortunately. I'm 59 and always get sad when I see old(er) people hating the young generation.


* I remember right after the vote, how upset a young girl here was as she intended to go for a Master or PhD outside the UK. An older British member told her directly: deal with it, I didn't have a chance to study abroad, why should you? It was literally one of the nastiest replies I've ever seen on this forum*

It's not as if it's in the interest of the older generations either. Unless they're so rich they have money in tax havens, and don't use the NHS. Heading into old age, it's the possibility of losing the NHS that's one of my biggest concerns, plus one day needing to be cared for by members of the younger generations, who are angry about what they've lost.

It's even more crazy, when they're the people who grew up during, or just after WW2, as the main reason for forming what became the EU was to prevent the wars that had devastated Europe for centuries.

I think that we as a nation are committing an act of self-harm which is completely unnecessary and we will come to regret it dearly. Unfortunately, once the people who voted for it realise how damaging it is, it will be too late to reverse the damage that it will cause to our economy and social fabric.

Hasn't irreversible damage happened already? Although it's likely to get worse. I wonder if many people who voted for it will ever realise what they've done, as the blame will be put onto anyone but those who are responsible.

Honestly think we’ll be back in pretty soon. Obviously not soon enough, but within 15 years. Already most people want us to remain. Once the British people start suffering the consequences of Brexit, and realise that most of the benefits they expected don’t exist (for example, I suspect most Leavers will be surprised how little immigration drops) we’ll have another referendum and there will be a thumping majority who stand up against the elites who want to strip away our freedom and the fascists and communists cheering them on.

Was Brexit mostly about trade, immigration, or something else?

Here are my counter predictions:

- Parliament will never seriously consider holding another referendum again, on anything, with one possible exception - Scottish independence. They now know that despite their best efforts, they can go the "wrong" way and they deeply disliked having to implement the 2016 result. The Tories have already introduced legislation to make future referendums require a higher voter turnout and greater than 50% majority to pass. This is mainly to put off extra-party factions like UKIP from calling for referendums.
- Things are going to get worse on the immigration front, hostilities will continue to rise as they always do historically. In the short term the EU issue will be chased off by association with "open borders". Economic hardship coming from all quarters, not just the Brexit fallout will only intensify the sentiment and this latest outbreak of a foreign plague will do the pro-immigration side no favours.
- In the UK and Europe, politics will continue to move right. The Tories have already figured out that they either become the nationalist "sink the ships" party or get replaced by one.
- Johnson's main opposition will be from newly confident and growing right wing factions within the Tory party, who are very shortly going to be denying him majorities unless he panders to them. HM's loyal opposition in the form of the Labour party will be almost irrelevant.
- Neoliberalism is dead and globalist economics is at death's door. If the EU survives, it will be in an unrecognisable form, a much looser association and ironically more appealing to the Anglos.

That's horse sh*t. Fascists and communists? You really don't do irony well.

Both, neither and a whole load of other stuff aswell.

Several of my elderly customers voted out under the conviction that the EU is secretly controlled by the Catholic Church as part of a secret agenda to destroy Protestantism ... but that wasn’t part of the official campaigns.

Other people hoped that it would lead to better funding for the health service.

There were hard leftists who wanted out under the belief the EU was holding back the true socialist nature of Britain.

There were libertarians who voted out under the belief that the EU is a communistic scheme to suppress true market freedom.

And on and in it goes: a vast multitude of motives, hopes and fears, dreams, delusions and good intentions.
And there were genuine, legitimate and valid concerns as well as the crackpot weirdness.

From what I’ve managed to gather from history books this is usually the way when you have mass support for big changes of either a revolutionary or pseudo-revolutionary nature.

Voting record not being a clear and unambiguous window into citizens minds.

I also agree with JohninWales... he's summed it all up for me.

Taxes are too high to be called "free people".

On referenda - I think they're a stupid idea and have done since 2011, acceptable for dealing with separatism as long as both sides have a clear plan but not suitable for day-to-day running of government, managing international relations, or even most constitutional reform. Something being popular does not make it right.

Hostilities do not always continue to rise, there are peaks and troughs. Right now the UK is very pro-immigration. We get foreign plagues all the time and they don't have lasting impacts on people's attitudes.

In the wider EU, politics cannot really be said to be "moving right" even though people have been predicting it for about a decade. It's a big continent. There are countries flirting with or outright embracing fascism (Hungary in particular should be kicked out of the EU; it won't be, because Poland and Austria will stand up for it) but there are also countries moving away from it or holding steady. In the UK I think it's fair to say Johnson has governed significantly to the right of Cameron and May on constitutional issues, but to the left of them on economic issues. His repeated commitment to an "Australian-style points-based immigration system based on skills and not nationality or race" is anathema to the hard right who want whites to be prioritised, and doesn't actually do anything to reduce immigration levels.

The hard-right of the Tory party isn't big enough to deny Johnson a majority. Yes there are some ideologues in there, but most of the Cornerstone MPs aren't particularly ideologically driven, they're basically united only by hatred of the EU. Try getting people like Blunt and Jenkin to agree with people like Bone and Chope on almost anything. Also worth noting that Johnson's inner circle have a lot of contempt for those people. Cummings in particular is vocal about it. Their influence is also largely diluted by the huge wave of Johnsonian loyalists who have just entered the House. It's entirely possible that something I've not foreseen will pop up, because god knows if the Tory right are good at anything it's finding pointless tripe to get upset about, but I don't think it should be an imminent concern for Johnson. Labour is, of course, greatly diminished, but I think Nandy has the ability to speak to a lot of the conservative left who held their noses to vote for Johnson to Get Brexit Done, while Starmer is capable of attracting the ordinary Britons who voted for Blair three times and Cameron twice, perhaps voting LD in 2005 and/or 2010.

The last point is pure wishful thinking. Globalist economics is lifting people out of poverty at an unprecedented rate and giving us all these great gizmos. People get far too hung up on Trump's election while ignoring everything else. As for the EU, if anything Brexit has strengthened the EU27. The Eurosceptic movements in those countries have shifted from supporting the end of the EU to only wanting to leave the Euro. The Brexit debacle is something that nobody is keen to repeat in a hurry.

Sir Keir is the main culprit in moving Labour's brexit policy into borderline insanity. He would be torn to shreds if we had an honest press. He also has a sickening record in his previous career. A very disturbing character and a nasty bit of work.