[POLL] Cult of the Virgin Mary.

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26 Feb 2020, 8:22 pm

Exactly, although there's much evidence that devotion to Our Lady was even earlier than this.

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blooiejagwa
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26 Feb 2020, 8:30 pm

Oh that makes sense. We don’t believe in that thing, but that’s because we don’t believe Jesus is the same thing as God. That’s the point of difference.
But the prayer itself is very beautiful. I should forward it to a person I know who follows this religion.

She actually has some parallel with Mary even if it’s not too too close,
Which is that she has never been married, is religious, and looked after a child called by that name, just a different pronunciation...

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old_comedywriter
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26 Feb 2020, 8:39 pm

Are we giving out handbaskets here?

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26 Feb 2020, 8:49 pm

blooiejagwa wrote:

Thanks, I read your earlier post, I'm sure my sister in Christ (I'm assuming she's Catholic) would appreciate it.

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26 Feb 2020, 8:50 pm

old_comedywriter wrote:

Are we giving out handbaskets here?

What do you mean?

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26 Feb 2020, 8:56 pm

Here's proof of how old devotion to Our Lady is, (apart from Sacred Scripture) writings from the Early Church Fathers, notice, the dates in the links provided:

Early Church Fathers on Mary as the New Eve

Early Church Fathers on Mary as Ark of the New Covenant

I'm going back to the thread that triggered all this, you can discuss things further with me there, you can skip the OP unless you're interested in the story: The Awesome Story of Our Lady of the Grand Return [And Devotion to Our Lady in general]

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27 Feb 2020, 7:59 am

But wasn't Mary's first reaction to the angel one of disbelief: How can I bear a child when I am a virgin?

She then comes around and acknowledges she will do as God commands, which is frequently interpreted that Woman must obey men and accept what she is given. It is also interpreted as Mary being the ultimate woman who listens and obeys God.

But her initial reaction is disbelief, which I find interesting.

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EzraS
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27 Feb 2020, 8:17 am

vermontsavant wrote:

This sounds like very devout catholicism not really a cult.Catholics have been praying to Mary for millenniums.

The Catholic in the other thread about Mary said:

"I just quoted several Biblical passages in support for the Cultus of Our Lady."

So apparently they too call it a cult.

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27 Feb 2020, 8:31 am

Something of note to me personally. Before I read Fnord's first post in this thread and without looking it up, and having a limited knowledge of church history - I had already come to the conclusion that the Mary doctrine probably started around 500 years after the inception of the Christian church. It is like somewhere around that time things started changing.

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27 Feb 2020, 8:41 am

Many things changed in Christianity during the 300s, or 4th century AD.

The Roman Empire legalized Christianity, then made it the state religion.

There were various councils during that time which determined mainstream Roman Catholic doctrine which continues to be applicable to the present day.

EzraS
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27 Feb 2020, 8:46 am

Greatshield17 wrote:

Since to my great disappointment some people who should be smarter are actually believing this garbage: 3rd Century prayer to the Mother of God

That is still 200-300 years later on.

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27 Feb 2020, 8:47 am

EzraS wrote:

vermontsavant wrote:

This sounds like very devout catholicism not really a cult.Catholics have been praying to Mary for millenniums.

The Catholic in the other thread about Mary said:

"I just quoted several Biblical passages in support for the Cultus of Our Lady."

So apparently they too call it a cult.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cult

Quote:

Definition of cult

1 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious (see spurious sense 2)
also : its body of adherents
// the voodoo cult
// a satanic cult
2a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (such as a film or book)
// criticizing how the media promotes the cult of celebrity
especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b : the object of such devotion
c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion
// the singer's cult of fans
// The film has a cult following.
3 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual
also : its body of adherents
// the cult of Apollo
4 : formal religious veneration : worship
5 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator
// health cults

I think it may be all about def. 1 vs def. 3 and 4.

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Fnord
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27 Feb 2020, 8:51 am

blazingstar wrote:

But wasn't Mary's first reaction to the angel one of disbelief: How can I bear a child when I am a virgin? She then comes around and acknowledges she will do as God commands, which is frequently interpreted that Woman must obey men and accept what she is given. It is also interpreted as Mary being the ultimate woman who listens and obeys God. But her initial reaction is disbelief, which I find interesting.

Even Jesus Himself implied that Mary's faith was less than great...

• • • •

Matthew 8:5-13 -- The Faith of a Roman Officer

When Jesus returned to Capernaum, a Roman officer came and pleaded with Him, "Lord, my young servant lies in bed, paralyzed and in terrible pain."

Jesus said, "I will come and heal him."

But the officer said, "Lord, I am not worthy to have you come into my home. Just say the word from where you are, and my servant will be healed. I know this because I am under the authority of my superior officers, and I have authority over my soldiers. I only need to say, 'Go', and they go, or 'Come', and they come. And if I say to my slaves, 'Do this', they do it."

When Jesus heard this, He was amazed. Turning to those who were following him, He said, "I tell you the truth, I haven't seen faith like this in all Israel! And I tell you this, that many Gentiles will come from all over the world -- from east and west -- and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob at the feast in the Kingdom of Heaven. But many Israelites -- those for whom the Kingdom was prepared -- will be thrown into outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Then Jesus said to the Roman officer, "Go back home. Because you believed, it has happened." And the young servant was healed that same hour.

• • • •

Note that in verse 8, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, I haven't seen faith like this in all Israel! Also note that "All of Israel" includes Mary. Thus, not even Mary's faith in Jesus was as great as that of a pagan Roman military officer (a Centurion, in many texts).

Obviously, even Mary doubted the divinity of Jesus.

EzraS
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27 Feb 2020, 8:53 am

blazingstar wrote:

The bible is full of people who obeyed God. Some even to the point of death. Most of them were men. Moses started out doubtful. Probably several others. Abraham was doubtful about his 100 year old wife bearing a child so he had a surrogate child named Ishmael who ended up becoming the father of the Arabs.

Last edited by EzraS on 27 Feb 2020, 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Greatshield17
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27 Feb 2020, 8:56 am

blazingstar wrote:

No, She did not doubt the Will of God, She merely questioned it. Questioning does not equal doubting, St. Thomas Aquinas questioned the existence of God, that did not mean he doubted the existence of God.

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27 Feb 2020, 8:58 am

In medieval days, many devout intellectual women wrote about their extreme devotion to Christianity. Many of them had “visions.”

Joan of Arc, who was a religious mystic, is thought to have been the person who saved France from having an English king. She used her revelations to spur the French soldiers on against the overwhelming odds in favor of the English.

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